Russian Armed Forces

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
Lord Jim
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

You can be certain that US and UK SSNs are going to be sniffing around it as soon as it is possible. This sort of work has never stopped even after the Cold War ended it never really did in the world of the submarine.

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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by seaspear »

It is interesting to consider how a submarine that has a deep diving vessel that can potentially drop in on many of the sensitive undersea cables is countered , if the submarines of the current U.S and R.N cant achieve those depths do they also mount deep diving vessels to protect such cables

Lord Jim
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

Probably keep tabs on Mother and then go and investigate any cables in the area with our own DSVs when they have moved on. Just another "Grey" area of warfare we have to deal with, but mind you we did it to the USSR back in the day, recording all Northern fleet telephone conversation for quite a while. Now cutting a cable would most likely result in more assertive action on our part, like the Russian DSV having a collision with a 21" Torpedo on the way up if caught in the act, well one can hope.

Phil Sayers
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by Phil Sayers »

Stung by the Armenian President calling the Iskander useless the Russian MOD have uploaded some footage of it being used in Syria:



The large building targeted in the portion starting at the 42 second mark is Azaz hospital in northern Syria. The strike took place in February 2016 and murdered 14 civilians. It takes some gall to openly boast about clear war crimes.....



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-15/ ... ia/7170340

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Reiterated the point that on the "Europe" type of scene Iskanders can be v effective on Day One of any conflict, but after 'the military' has got on with its dispersal - fixed navy & air bases would still need defending - the main effect will be reducing civilian infra to rubble
- all planners are (presumably) aware that the same can be done in reverse
... does not apply in the above documented case, though. A different 'scene'.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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xav
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by xav »

Russia Designs A New Class Of Ship: Universal Sea Complex ‘Varan’
Image
Nevskoe Bureau said Varan is distinguished by multirole structure (unified platform), which can produce several types of big surface warships, including an aircraft carrier, landing ship, hospital vessel, and even a support vessel for the Arctic ⚓️
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... lex-varan/

serge750
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by serge750 »

One of the pictures of the aircraft carriers looks as though it has a floodable stern well dock....

Would love to see a Russian carrier CGI/model turn into reality !

I think they should ask china to sell them back Liaoning & purchase the Shangdong, than let the Chinese get on with their CATOBAR carriers now they are gaining a lot of experience with deck landings & building carriers

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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by abc123 »

serge750 wrote:One of the pictures of the aircraft carriers looks as though it has a floodable stern well dock....

Would love to see a Russian carrier CGI/model turn into reality !

I think they should ask china to sell them back Liaoning & purchase the Shangdong, than let the Chinese get on with their CATOBAR carriers now they are gaining a lot of experience with deck landings & building carriers
Meh, just kids playing with paints...
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Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
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Lord Jim
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

Here is a good introduction to lower level Russian Infantry units which should be of help when looking to what the British Army may need going forward. Long gone are the Soviet era large formations and an approach more akin to how western forces operate is now used.

The organisation of a Battalion based Battle Group is of particular interest, given the number of assets that are directly assigned to it. A full Artillery Battalion for example supporting a sing Infantry Battalion shown the emphasis Russia puts on this arm. The British Army would have its 81mm Mortars and hopefully a Battery in direct support. More may be available if a situation arose but then again so would more be available to the Russian Battalion. It does show how we need to integrate EW and UAV units down to this level as well as Air Defence, which will entail expanding the number of these types of units we have. Increased Engineering assets are also going to be needed.

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Tempest414
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by Tempest414 »

Lord Jim wrote:The British Army would have its 81mm Mortars and hopefully a Battery in direct support.
This is why for me we should move to 120mm Nemo mortar system within the 3rd division and 120mm Spear based JLTV mortar system within the 1st this would allow mortar fire to move from 5km with 81mm out to 10+km and able to protect forward cavalry units backed up by Artillery support groups with field guns , UAV & air defence units

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

I fully agree with this: the engagement envelope will have to be modified (=stretched).

On a side note, have been doing the rounds with some folks, in the countries immediately bordering Russia, and the Russophobia is really blinding the views of where the threat is going (and what it is driven by).

E.g, I asserted that
a main threat is that because lacking/negative population growth is having a severe impact on the age cohorts becoming eligible for military service (and it is only the army that still has a reliance on conscripts), it is the professonalisation of Russian formations. especially the elite ones, and therefore the ability to 'go' from a standing start
- so the driver, and how they have responded in shaping their force structure, see
https://www.statista.com/statistics/100 ... -scenario/

AND one 'poor sole' - bless him and the site where they seem to agree - responded that in 2016 Rosstat said that deaths and births were finally in balance
... AND THAT it would be 'all growth from there' :shock:

Mortal syns
1. Believe Rosstat
- and they do not project, anyway [ which is the point for defence analysis]
2. Project yourself, when there are expert sources available (and they also spell out the assumptions, should one not believe that they/ some of them are not valid)

Well: sometimes hatred (based on some nations' historical experiences) can blind oneself to any objective analysis
- add to this the other commonly (across many nations) occurring form of blindness
= namely the blind faith in tech, and because of the cost of such tech, believing that pruning the numbers to pay for it, will make the spearhead sharper

EVEN the Neanderthals knew that a spearhead, without the spear to follow, was absolutely useless.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Right, the latest (though I have been inclined to quote the WHO) is that

- Russia has reported the first fall in life expectancy since 2003 (a testimony to how well Putin's modernisation of the economy has worked)
- but even more relevant to understanding military power in the coming years, the population fell (by 0.8 mln) to 146

Rosstat says (despite the above, and despite the fact that there is no more 'return' immigration from the ex-Soviet Republics to patch up for the endogenous population dynamics) that in 2036 the number will be 150 mln
... I believe those who say 134-136 mln (of course it does not matter at all what I believe)

But the 10% difference is the make or break for the productivity in the economy (support ratios and all that...), but also the imperative for the techno-army, with fewer soldiers (so few in the age cohorts that hoovering away big numbers, just to fill the ranks for a year or two - without becoming fully effective) that will be all-Pro
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by SW1 »

Ice Station Zebra!! SSBNs in the high north

https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/secur ... g0.twitter

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

We better get some NTs onto the T-45s
https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/secur ... le-kinzhal
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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SKB
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by SKB »

Any news on the release of the next Russian ship models? :mrgreen:

Lord Jim
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

Looking at this video, was Trump right to pull out of the INF treaty? I know that like all videos from this source there is a certain amount of playing up a systems good points, but the fact that the west doesn't have anything in this class, and at present lacks the ability to properly defend against it, or so it seems is a cause to worry. There is at least one Brigade of these based in their enclave between Poland and the Baltic States which puts many key locations within range. The only solution to tis I can see is to station GMLRS and/or HIMARS relatively close by, but the West is pretty obsessed about not antagonising Russia beyond words.

Lord Jim
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

Another video, this time showing the various types of Russian small arms ammunition, their performance and their manufacture. It is a pretty good video just for finding out about the performance of different ammunition types as well as how they are made regardless of the video being Russian. It is well worth a watch.

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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

The media are now reporting that the Russian Navy is gathering a number of Amphibious Landing platforms in the Black Sea as well as threatening to blockade the Ukrainian in the Sea of Azov and declare certain areas of the Black Sea as "No go areas" for foreign naval vessels. Ukraine fears a naval landing to seize access to fresh water resources to alleviate the shortage of water in the Crimea.

According to reports the UK's new Carrier Battle Group may detach a T-45 and T-23 to the Black Sea and delay its entrance into the Suez Canal, in order to show solidarity with Ukraine along with other nations and have the Carrier available if a further show of strength is necessary.

This was from Microsoft News: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/wo ... d=msedgntp

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote: Ukraine fears a naval landing to seize access to fresh water resources to alleviate the shortage of water in the Crimea.
A bit of a Hong Kong situation developing there.

And the Sea of Azov is not the only one with a controllable access point.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

Another interesting tit bit of a story, Russia is withdrawing from the International Space Station programme in 2025 and intends to build its own near earth orbit facility. This is big news in my opinion as Russia until recently, provided most of the infrastructure to transfer Astronauts and payloads to and from the ISS. But this will also be good news for the private US company that has recently begun launches to the ISS. Also will China join the Russian programme, removing any funding it currently put into the ISS programme? Will Russia militarise its Space Station at some point?
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/29382 ... IWrth-SmHs

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

This
https://www.iiss.org/blogs/military-bal ... 0d3ad5c5e8
could equally well go onto the RN thread
- any thoughts?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

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From what I have read, there are difficulties in using Hypersonic weapons against pinpoint targets like ships at see, in that it is pretty difficult to carry out manoeuvres at such speeds and there use equates more to naval gunfire in having to predict where the target will be with the missile only able to make slight changes in course in the terminal phase. I am sure a lot of work is being done in this area to make the weapons viable and some form of mid course guidance update maybe required, but the system as a whole i going to be very complicated and expensive.

Of course it is the speed of these weapons that should make them so dangerous as so early detection, high speed interception and stand off counter measures are going to be vital for high value targets moving forward. Modern Naval Groups will have to have access to real time satellite early warning and surveillance capabilities 24/7, to detect possible hostile forces, missile launches and ideally missile tracking. This would be joined up with powerful ship based AAW radars working with manned to unmanned airborne radar to further extend the radar coverage and engagement zone. Unmanned UAVs would carry stand off jamming equipment and countermeasures and be able to be moved to the main threat axis. When it comes to interception it will require multiple interceptors to ensure the destruction of the incoming threats, and this is the main reason the current level of capacity on most NATO ships, usually around 48 is far to few. One hit form a hypersonic AShM will probably be enough to disable any surface warship by its kinetic energy alone.

So to prevent this the layers of defence must be further out. CIWS like Phalanx will be of little use against such a threat but will still be useful against more traditional missile threats but they will need complimenting by more capable systems such as Sea Ceptor/CAMM. This means that vessels that are currently routinely fitted with a CIWS like Phalanx should in future also be fitted with an enhanced system like that mentioned, possible using a containerised or modular form for vessels like RFAs that would include both missiles, data link. Modern consoles could be adapted to be easily re-rolled to control such a system or a mobile console able to be installed on any vessel could be developed. Where possible though such installations should be permanent.

Hypersonic weapons are a great tool to scare people with and there is some justification for this but countermeasure do exist but they are needed to be installed now whilst the more elaborate countermeasures are developed. High density launch systems for weapons like Sea Ceptor need to be used rather than individual launch canisters. A T-26 for example could carry almost double the number of Sea Ceptors using ExLS stand alone four missile launchers in the same space as the current "Mushrooms". We could use the T-31 as a magazine ship for other Warships if it were allowed to carry more Sea Ceptors, as would installing the weapon on the Carriers, Amphibious Ships and RFAs.

The danger is if one side is allowed to gain a major advantage by deploying effective hypersonic weapon systems and the other does not counter the threat effectively. This will enable the former to create no go zones for the latter which in turn may allow the former to carry out actions to the major detriment of the latter or their allies.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote:Hypersonic weapons are a great tool to scare people with
yep, but they
Lord Jim wrote:will enable [the former] to create no go zones for the latter which in turn may allow [the former] to carry out actions to the major detriment of the latter or their allies.
The current version of shore-based deterrent is "Bastion" but the Kuola Peninsula is also (strategically) called a bastion... the bubble will be substantially enlarged if you have Mig-31s flying high and launching Kinchals at opposing naval forces
- hard to apply the old tru-ism of shooting the archer, rather than the arrow (as a counter)
Lord Jim wrote: We could use the T-31 as a magazine ship for other Warships if it were allowed to carry more Sea Ceptors
A great idea: gain a capability (thru capacity) w/o having to give up any other 'in return'
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

https://www.euronews.com/2021/05/09/vic ... YifQ%3D%3D

He did not mention which country operates concentration camp -like gulags for political opponents and which one has security forces that mete out brown shirts -type of violence to peaceful protesters, with impunity.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Russian Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

Comparisons could be made between Russia under Putin and Hitler's rise to power and his actions up to the start of WW2. Cracking down on any opposition, annexing the territory of neighbouring countries, destabilising these as well and supporting anti governmental factions. You have to admire the way Russia under Putin has occupied the Grey Area with regards to international competition and conflict, taking advantage of the Western Powers when they were concentration of COIN wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are now playing catch up and need to do so rapidly. On the bright side I personally feel Russia is far more vulnerable then the West to such actions taken against it and I believe it presents a hard shell but if this is broken it could be come a house of cards ready to fall or at least for those at the top. Could this lead to a rash last throw of the dice? I do not think so as I hope there are enough cooler heads still in place or near to them to prevent such an act.

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