UK Defence Forum

Two or three years slower than I thought they would go for.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/04 ... ace-awacs/

2027, I must admit I thought they would have wanted a quicker turn around than that.

Also I am surprised they are buying off the shelf, now all we need to do is tack 2 more on their order for ourselves

Jdam wrote: ↑27 Apr 2022, 00:01 https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/04 ... ace-awacs/

2027, I must admit I thought they would have wanted a quicker turn around than that.

Also I am surprised they are buying off the shelf, now all we need to do is tack 2 more on their order for ourselves

Some speculation that the extra few years are for either updates to MESA or migrating the existing suite to a MAX airframe. WE'll see.

Would they really want to go to a MAX airframe?

And that's assuming that Boeing pays off Capital Hill to get the extension they need to fudge the air worthiness...

Halidon wrote: ↑27 Apr 2022, 22:21

Jdam wrote: ↑27 Apr 2022, 00:01 https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/04 ... ace-awacs/

2027, I must admit I thought they would have wanted a quicker turn around than that.

Also I am surprised they are buying off the shelf, now all we need to do is tack 2 more on their order for ourselves

Some speculation that the extra few years are for either updates to MESA or migrating the existing suite to a MAX airframe. WE'll see.

Jeez, if it's the 737 Max they will be buying into a whole boatload of risk. The whole C of G changes requiring serious flight tests (remembering that there are extra dorsal fins for stability on the E-7A). I'd be amazed if that's it. It's possible they wish to jump ahead a generation with the Mesa, however. Less risk if they can keep it inside the same profile. I hope that's it – it would be great for every operator. It would revitalise the entire capability while still being a very viable upgrade for existing operators.

Mercator wrote: ↑28 Apr 2022, 00:16

Halidon wrote: ↑27 Apr 2022, 22:21

Jdam wrote: ↑27 Apr 2022, 00:01 https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/04 ... ace-awacs/

2027, I must admit I thought they would have wanted a quicker turn around than that.

Also I am surprised they are buying off the shelf, now all we need to do is tack 2 more on their order for ourselves

Some speculation that the extra few years are for either updates to MESA or migrating the existing suite to a MAX airframe. WE'll see.

Jeez, if it's the 737 Max they will be buying into a whole boatload of risk. The whole C of G changes requiring serious flight tests (remembering that there are extra dorsal fins for stability on the E-7A). I'd be amazed if that's it. It's possible they wish to jump ahead a generation with the Mesa, however. Less risk if they can keep it inside the same profile. I hope that's it – it would be great for every operator. It would revitalise the entire capability while still being a very viable upgrade for existing operators.

MESA (and other gear) upgrades would get my vote, but I felt it was worth mentioning the MAX possibility. This is USAF, it could easily be their plan to do both

Boeing E-7 B incoming by the sounds of it.

Boeing

737max design airworthiness authority removed by faa selling each a/c at a 20% loss
787 deliveries remains suspended (approaching 737 duration) design airworthiness authority removed by faa
777x pushed right 4 years due to serious test failure and faa concerns similar to 737 max

New narrowbody/regional plane imminent!

New airforce one way way over budget and late
T7 in trouble cost overruns schedule going right
KC46 tanker late and not working properly

We need a new 4 year development program for awac US gov sure here have some cash……

What did I say before. The USAF aren't going to buy E7 as is far too easy. Too much pork barrelling required.

USAF : We need this urgently to replace our knackered old E-3's.

Also USAF : We just want to change a shit load of parts first.

https://www.airforcemag.com/air-force-a ... ace-awacs/

Likely the open architecture system first fight tested back in 2020 on a RAAF E-7.

Agree- three UK E7's just feels too few. Ideally we should order one per year for the next three years, to spread the cost.

Then again we need more P8 MPA and more F35B's so it will require additional funds allocated to defence and then juggling of MOD priorites.

there isn’t crew to man what currently is on order and delivered so adding more won’t do much.

Maybe it would be better to wait a few year until the USAF have actually received some E7s so we can get the same version

Or handover F35B and P8 crewing to the RN (Along with the Aircraft naturally). With headcount transfers, the RAF should still gain some spare resource as the RN works its assets to a greater degree.

Passing the F-25Bs to the Fleet Air Arm would make sense, but they to are short of personnel, especially pilots. If it was decided to go that route it would take a good few years to being the number of pilots up to the numbers required, also taking into account RAF and foreign exchange officers.

The P-87s as with previous MPAs have always been the purview of the RAF since its formation. Having exchange crew should be encouraged, especially operators in the cabin with experience of ASW etc.

Shortfalls in personnel should be seen as an urgent and essential requirement going forward and this if anything should be cause for new money to be given to the MoD to begin to increase numbers to meet the tasks at hand as well as increasing the reserves.

How much more manpower would 2 more E-7 need? (assuming 5 is enough)

LJ. Alas, you did not read my post properly, “Transfer of Crewing” (and Headcount) …. Not just the responsibility to provide it.

FAA Pilots & Maintainers provide extra value in terms of availability for deployment, so not all of the current F”3”5 personnel would need to transfer, or as an alternative way of looking at it, not so many RAF resources would be required for the second (and subsequent) Front Line F35B Squadrons either.

If Australian experience is anything to go by, you can gain a lot of synergy with your MPA workforce – aircrew and maintainers. All of the backend EW guys in Australian E-7A are ex-P3/P8 (EW) sensor operators. There are even a few Navigators that have gone over from the MPA world and found a new home in air defence (there's lots of similarities, and of course the surface battle is the same). But the pilots have the easiest transition and there's a lot of crossover in our Air Force. It helps that they are managed in the same Force Element Group as well. It's easier to share people than to pinch them with no intention of giving them back.

For maintainers, well they are both 737s and both Boeing products. I'm pretty sure after the next upgrade, they will even be sharing the same workstations/displays. All very similar.

I bet you could increase manpower in the E-7 fleet, and any chance of manning additional a/c, by moving it to waddo...

hmm:

[US] Lawmakers press Air Force on speeding up purchase of Boeing E-7 Wedgetail
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/05/law ... wedgetail/

That might mean that they are thinking of purchasing a couple of used airframes, but I also thought it might mean they could approach other E-7A customers as well. Could be a good deal.

The E-7 is not an open architecture system but proprietary which is a strike against it these days with the Pentagon, a Boeing director said software could be modified, but that would delay the program, how important that plays in USAF thinking anyone's guess.