UK Defence Forum

Fingers crossed

Post brexit I'm wondering whether commercial shipbuilding might have a future in the UK...

Seems that the nonsense of globalisation has been put to bed by Covid and this may lead to a new eye being cast on strategic vulnerabilities. With well over 90% of all large commercial vessels now being made in either China, South Korea or Japan a war in the far east could have dramatic consequences for us.

Amazingly the maritime 2050 document barely even mentions this, an appalling document written by the ever competent Chris Grayling (lol!) most of it's pages seem to relate instead to feminism...

I'm wondering what policy measures the government could use to help the ship building industry.. Boris recently stated that he would like the UK to become a shipbuilding superpower, which may well be rhubarb and tubes of fennel but might also hint at a strategic direction.

For instance the UKIM bill is mainly controversial due to it's provisions for state aid. If any industry ever needed state aid it is shipbuilding with one of the largest dry docks in the Western Hemisphere basically unused in Belfast. Post Brexit the tariff on steel will be 0%, as compared to the current EU tariff of 25%, which will at least make shipbuilding competitive in the UK as opposed to the continent. Which still makes significant tonnages of commercial shipping in niche markets. Smoothing out the domestic market for military tubs with commercial builds would solve a lot of headaches for the MoD with regard to skills and capacity. The devil is in the detail though with hidden subsidies and state aid playing a major part.

I doubt there is any way to compete purely on price with the far east, despite SK and Japanese tariffs, as the steel cost only makes up about 20-30% of the total, though those Asian nations do have high workforce costs, even higher than the UK generally.

In the USA the Jones act ensures a steady trickle of work for shipyards. Though this could be considered a tax on the businesses which need ships. China massively subsidises shipbuilding as part of it's belt and road initiative, clearly seeking to force capitalist yards out of business. Similarly many European yards are either state owned or receive hidden subsidies.

I suspect though that some mixture of free ports, tax inducements and regulations might work rather well to change the industry's fortunes. Something akin to the Jones act for smaller vessels such as fishing boats might be prudent too.

Some interesting thoughts, I suspect some truth in there that will be borne out in due course

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/governm ... -warships/

Well if they are planning on jump starting the industry this is a first step.

It would be good to see HMG update the list of classes/types that now meet the definition of "warship". If we can get that baked in officially it makes it less likely future Governments will let the next batch of RFAs, minehunters, amphibious ships etc go abroad

Had they done that... they would now be stuck, with that list not having any of those coming out of MARS

I am as convinced as anyone with no hard evidence can be that this is what Boris Johnson was referring to when he hinted of a possible contract for Appledore.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornw ... nt-4543865

A 70 metre-ish, 500-ish capacity, catamaran ferry, designed for shallow draught operationas. Possibly hybrid electric propulsion.



There is some circumstantial evidence.

* Infrastrata have identified ferries as one of their five key markets
* Infrastrata have said they are targeting "other government departments such as the Home Office and Department for Transport [offering] an exciting and cost-effective domestic option for a number of smaller vessel builds that are in the pipeline in the months to come".
* We've had a recently asked Parliamentary question about the Strategic Outline Business Case submitted by the Isles of Scilly
Transport Board to the Department for Transport for improved services and investment in new craft.

Great to see PR done properly (i.e. when you have relevant news, how much else can be baked around it, for general release)

Happy Days

https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/a ... ssion=true

Poiuytrewq wrote:Happy Days

Yes indeed good news it was rumored a couple of weeks ago. I wonder who landed the contract.

Good news, but 2 x 60m ships isnt going to create and sustain many shipbuilding jobs. Need more orders coming through. Perhaps this might be a sign of things to come, maybe the financial model here might be extended to other friendly nations

Poiuytrewq wrote:Happy Days

It's a MoU, which is absolutely not the same thing as a contractually binding order.

Good news, Appledore aiming for January 2021 opening.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/mil- ... news_promo

HMG needs to commit to continued investment now and capitalise on the momentum.

Many of the MoD's projects could be made cheaper overall if HMG were more willing to put more cash up front and secure the remaining funding required. The year to year budgeting has to end when dealing with long lead time programmes, the model used by the private sector doesn't fit defence procurement the majority of the time.

Have we any updates on the Ukrainian order yet?

dmereifield wrote:Have we any updates on the Ukrainian order yet?

It's a MoU rather than an order. It's a bit like the difference between getting engaged and getting married. It doesn't have any legal status, can drag on for a long time, and may not happen.

RichardIC wrote:

dmereifield wrote:Have we any updates on the Ukrainian order yet?

It's a MoU rather than an order. It's a bit like the difference between getting engaged and getting married. It doesn't have any legal status, can drag on for a long time, and may not happen.

Spoil sport! Here's hoping they do tie the knot, and sometime soon

x-pollenation between sectors, just as it should be

Good news for the Belfast shipyards.

So who are Triumph Subsea Services?

They have a pretty cheap and nasty website, but don't appear to have much else.

https://www.triumph-subsea.com/

Let's see how this develops.

RichardIC wrote:So who are Triumph Subsea Services?

What their website does tell us is that they seem to have ordered or intend to order a lot of vessels and other related equipment. What it doesn't tell us is what are the services they supply and who they supply them to. In fact it appears they don't supply any services to anyone. Unless they have some very powerful backers I would be more than a little sceptical about any supposed orders they have placed.