UK Shipbuilding
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- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Shipbuilding
Good to have this thread as the NSS was talking about creating an 'ecosystem' that could support the variability in naval drum beat(s).
- off the top of my head only small craft, other boats (subs) and off-shore in other structures than of ship form were left out
- off the top of my head only small craft, other boats (subs) and off-shore in other structures than of ship form were left out
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
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Re: UK Shipbuilding
Some interesting info here for anyone who hasn't read it.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ummary.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ummary.pdf
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Shipbuilding
What an excellent piece of writing. As it is too late to polish the 'turd' of abt 30 pages (half of it pictures) called the report on the MDP, may be the MoD could take the writing team on 'short-term loan' and help to put together the NSS review doc (due over the summer; I am not saying that the original report had any quality problems, but the topic is so specialist that investing in readability will help to maximise its impact).Poiuytrewq wrote:Some interesting info here for anyone who hasn't read it.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ummary.pdf
Contents-wise I had only one remark to make (and as this is a report by one Gvmnt Dept it is understandable they did not want to stray "over the fence" into another Dept's area of responsibility):
"Government will assess the feasibility of undertaking a systems approach to identifying single points of failure for maritime infrastructure – looking “beyond the fence” to identify interdependencies of connected infrastructure, supply chains and their levels of redundancy"
and the remark is about how we have made the resilience in our energy supply chain, esp. in the case of gas, wafer thin.
- not just by not investing,
- but actually decommissioning storage facilities working perfectly well and serving a higher (national security) purpose... in the ideologically driven push to have absolutely everything done by private companies
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
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Re: UK Shipbuilding
Agreed, it's hard to believe that Mr Grayling had anything to do with itArmChairCivvy wrote:What an excellent piece of writing.
The reality is both strategies are completely intertwined and therefore the documents should be almost written in parallel. Proper joined up thinking would be a novelty but very welcome.ArmChairCivvy wrote:...may be the MoD could take the writing team on 'short-term loan' and help to put together the NSS review doc
The original NSS needs to be seen very much as a foundation to be built upon rather than a finished article. It's still got a long way to go to be widely accepted as a coherent long term strategy as opposed to a short term PR sticking plaster contrived mainly for political purposes.
Now widely recognised to have gone too far. This all encompassing privatisation policy is a at a crossroads now, either the politicians change direction or the electorate will change the politicians. It's just a pity that so much has been lost that we won't be able to get back.ArmChairCivvy wrote:... in the ideologically driven push to have absolutely everything done by private companies
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Re: UK Shipbuilding
Portsmouth conference welcomes expert discussion on UK’s shipbuilding ‘renaissance’
https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defen ... ssion=true
https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defen ... ssion=true
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Re: UK Shipbuilding
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/busi ... 46170.html
The combined surface area of the sites is nearly 90 acres.
The building dock is the biggest in Europe, and one possible use is for the construction of next generation very large vessels in excess of 500,000 tonnes.
Yesterday a spokesman said: "Harland & Wolff Heavy Industries Ltd can confirm that as part of wider restructuring activities, it is engaged in a marketing process that may lead to a potential sale of the business.
"The day to day running of the company is unaffected."
Earlier this year Harland & Wolff's dry dock was used for the refitting of luxury cruise liner the Azamara Pursuit by staff of Newry marine fit-out company MJM.
http://www.harland-wolff.com/Facilities-(2).aspx
FABRICATION SHOPS
Over 30,000m2 covered fabrication halls
Structural steel 100-250t per week capacity
Miscellaneous steel 30-75t per week capacity
Pipe Manufacture 100-300 spools per week capacity
Maximums
Straight Lift: 300 tonne (2 x 150t)
Turnover Lift: 150 tonne
Turnover Height: 23m
Door: 40m w x 18m h
The combined surface area of the sites is nearly 90 acres.
The building dock is the biggest in Europe, and one possible use is for the construction of next generation very large vessels in excess of 500,000 tonnes.
Yesterday a spokesman said: "Harland & Wolff Heavy Industries Ltd can confirm that as part of wider restructuring activities, it is engaged in a marketing process that may lead to a potential sale of the business.
"The day to day running of the company is unaffected."
Earlier this year Harland & Wolff's dry dock was used for the refitting of luxury cruise liner the Azamara Pursuit by staff of Newry marine fit-out company MJM.
http://www.harland-wolff.com/Facilities-(2).aspx
FABRICATION SHOPS
Over 30,000m2 covered fabrication halls
Structural steel 100-250t per week capacity
Miscellaneous steel 30-75t per week capacity
Pipe Manufacture 100-300 spools per week capacity
Maximums
Straight Lift: 300 tonne (2 x 150t)
Turnover Lift: 150 tonne
Turnover Height: 23m
Door: 40m w x 18m h
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Re: UK Shipbuilding
A Parliamentary debate on UK shipbuilding took place at Westminster Hall on Thursday 11th July 2019.
Video: https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... 2fa981183d
Video: https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... 2fa981183d
Re: UK Shipbuilding
Last ship ever built at H&W was MV Anvil Point, a Point class sealift ship, which was commissioned in 2003.
Thread: https://www.ukdefenceforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=363
Thread: https://www.ukdefenceforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=363
Re: UK Shipbuilding
Meanwhile the govt continues to give away tens of billions every year to third world countries, some of which probably supports industries of theirs. But they couldn’t possibly bail out an industry that has a crucial national strategic importance!
Then they wonder why so many people are pissed and extremists get support and platforms from this sort of thing from people who’d never normally look twice at them....
Then they wonder why so many people are pissed and extremists get support and platforms from this sort of thing from people who’d never normally look twice at them....
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Re: UK Shipbuilding
Lots of work continuing behind the scenes to secure the future of Harland & Wolff.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49446078
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49446078
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Shipbuilding
Poiuytrewq wrote:Lots of work continuing behind the scenes to secure the future of Harland & Wolff.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49446078
They had one (repair/refit) order on the books and...MV Anvil point was completed at H&W in 2002, as one of the six Points (of the German design).
- FSS ( the size of them!) decision can realistically be the game changer for the currently Norvegian-owned yard
- but "what if" the FLSS (refitting from Points, preferably the two that were sold back "to the trade" and have more powerful engines/ better speed) was to be a goer, as well?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
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- Senior Member
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Re: UK Shipbuilding
Yes, it is the FSS that would really secure the immediate future of H&W but blocks for the A140's would help as well.ArmChairCivvy wrote:- FSS ( the size of them!) decision can realistically be the game changer for the currently Norvegian-owned yard
A partnership with CL would be a very sensible way to spread the risk and geographically they aren't that far apart either.
This type of refit work has historically been a speciality of H&W and converting a couple of FLSS from commercially derived RoRo's would be a big help. Personally I think all of the Points are now too old for conversion but similar vessels are available if HMG decides to go ahead with the FLSS proposal.ArmChairCivvy wrote:- but "what if" the FLSS (refitting from Points, preferably the two that were sold back "to the trade" and have more powerful engines/ better speed) was to be a goer, as well?
It's clear that UK shipbuilding should not be in the dire position that it finds itself in and is due a large part to chronic indecision as well as an unwillingness to order anything meaningful in an effort to balance the books. In addition the awarding of the Tide contract to a South Korean yard has almost killed off the remainder the UK's commercial shipbuilding sector. But of course the savings involved meant it was the well worth it
If HMG finally see sense and organise a steady drumbeat of work, all yards currently operating should have a bright future far beyond the 2030's.
BAE Govan and Scotstoun: T26 and T45 replacements
Rosyth: A140's followed by LPD replacements
Cammel Laird: FSS, FLSS, OPV's, MCMV and Bay replacements
H&W: FSS and FLSS, MCMV and Bay replacements
Barrow: UK's Submarine centre of excellence
Appledore might even get a reprieve and would be ideally suited to providing patrol vessels for UK coastguard and fisheries protection possibly building Damen or Vard designs under licence.
It can all be done but will HMG commit to long term investment in the UK shipbuilding industry? If the FSS contract goes to Navantia we will soon have the answer.
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Re: UK Shipbuilding
Not sure where to post this but I shall put it here in case CL actually get to build it!
Looks to be a very commendable project but with the size of the UK's foreign aid budget, should we really be leaving this vital work to another charity?
Looks to be a very commendable project but with the size of the UK's foreign aid budget, should we really be leaving this vital work to another charity?
Re: UK Shipbuilding
May be the Government should match the Charity and build a sister ship, as well as contributing to the operating budgets of both. Could such a platform be designated as a HADR platform for the Caribbean, especially in the hurricane season, freeing up a Bay for other duties.