UK Shipbuilding

For everything else UK defence-related that doesn't fit into any of the sections above.
Scimitar54
Senior Member
Posts: 1701
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by Scimitar54 »

Depends what the MRSS turns out to be. Who knows, they could even be the amphibious. equivalent of “through-deck cruisers”! :mrgreen:

Repulse
Donator
Posts: 4583
Joined: 05 May 2015, 22:46
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by Repulse »

Scimitar54 wrote: 13 Apr 2022, 04:56 Depends what the MRSS turns out to be. Who knows, they could even be the amphibious. equivalent of “through-deck cruisers”! :mrgreen:
More like the following (plus a small hanger) :mrgreen:

Image
These users liked the author Repulse for the post (total 2):
Lord JimArmChairCivvy
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Repulse wrote: 13 Apr 2022, 08:02
Scimitar54 wrote: 13 Apr 2022, 04:56 Depends what the MRSS turns out to be. Who knows, they could even be the amphibious. equivalent of “through-deck cruisers”! :mrgreen:
More like the following (plus a small hanger) :mrgreen:

Image
What is the split between (NO) hangar and extra bunking in the conceptual drawing linked?
These users liked the author ArmChairCivvy for the post:
wargame_insomniac
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

wargame_insomniac
Senior Member
Posts: 1135
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by wargame_insomniac »

ArmChairCivvy wrote: 21 May 2022, 15:23
Repulse wrote: 13 Apr 2022, 08:02
Scimitar54 wrote: 13 Apr 2022, 04:56 Depends what the MRSS turns out to be. Who knows, they could even be the amphibious. equivalent of “through-deck cruisers”! :mrgreen:
More like the following (plus a small hanger) :mrgreen:

Image
What is the split between (NO) hangar and extra bunking in the conceptual drawing linked?
In the amphib thread I had linked the Damen portfolio of smaller LPD and noted some practical examples of smaller LPD in service. For the MRSS I believe they need to be large enough to carry a reiforced RM Company, i.e. a full Company of RM Commandos plus support Platoons / Troops providing artillery support, logistics, signals and communications, engineering and transport etc.

Under Future Commando Force, being able to deploy a RM Company is the limit which we can cover globally. Together with smaller RM Troops being deployed on board OPV and esscorts when required.

Re the future MRSS, I am guessing they will need to have hangar space for at least a couple of helicopters (I am presuming probably Merlin size or smaller), a flight deck with one landing spot big enough to take a Chinook, well deck big enough to carry an LCU and maybe a couple of LCVP on davits. Long term the well deck and flight deck might be mainly used for USV / USuV and UAV. Armanent probably just automated 40mm/30mm cannon with secondary manual HMG / Miniguns.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 21 May 2022, 16:39 Under Future Commando Force, being able to deploy a RM Company is the limit which we can cover globally. Together with smaller RM Troops being deployed on board OPV and esscorts when required.

Re the future MRSS, I am guessing they will need to have hangar space for at least a couple of helicopters (I am presuming probably Merlin size or smaller), a flight deck with one landing spot big enough to take a Chinook, well deck big enough to carry an LCU and maybe a couple of LCVP on davits.
I think the LCU would blow out the cost (size) envelope?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Since my comment, have read from the US(N/ MC) budget that they will order their 'nimble' ship in the coming fiscal year
... will be interesting to see how it will map onto our planned 'capabilities'. Namely, Berger (****) before being nominated to the Commandant post was saying that they can learn from the RM 'company-level deployment plans'
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

jonas
Senior Member
Posts: 1110
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 19:20
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by jonas »


jonas
Senior Member
Posts: 1110
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 19:20
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by jonas »


Poiuytrewq
Senior Member
Posts: 3958
Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Not the best of news,

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... p-project/

“Harland & Wolff Shipyard building dock
The historic shipyard that built the Titanic has been forced to delay and cancel a string of key contracts in an update that sent shares plunging by a fifth.

Harland & Wolff, which owns the Belfast yard that built the White Star Line vessel, said that a key military contract to overhaul a minesweeper for the Lithuanian Navy had been delayed by parts shortages.

Cruise and ferry work will also be pushed to 2023, meaning a total of up to £30m of income expected this year will now arrive late.

In addition, a £5m contract to deliver four wind turbine generator jackets has been scrapped.

Harland & Wolff had hoped to earn revenues of between £65m and £75m but said it was now on track to make less than half of that.

Shares slumped by 22pc on the update. The company’s £22m debt pile means it must stay on top of income in order to pay the interest.

The shipbuilder has suffered a number of setbacks this year, including a row with HM Revenue & Customs and the scrapping of plans to build a new Royal yacht nicknamed “Britain’s Air Force One”. Harland was one of two final bidders on the project.

Harland blamed inflation and the poor outlook for the economy for delays to its cruise and ferry work.

Problems obtaining parts for warships have slowed down its contract with the Lithuanian Navy, though it said it should still deliver the ship on time.

John Wood, group chief executive, said: “Whilst it is disappointing that we have not met our aspirations for 2022 due to timing issues, we have made significant progress over the last twelve months.

He added: “I believe that we are now at the cusp of a major transformation of the entire group and the team is working hard to convert bids into contracts.”

Harland picked up a number of contracts this year that stoked hopes of a recovery for British shipbuilding. Shares rallied strongly in November after the company won part of a contract to build Royal Navy supply ships.

However, it has slumped 15pc across 2022 amid lingering concerns about the company’s debts.

HMRC petitioned to have the company wound up for the second time this year in June over an alleged unpaid bill of £92,275.

The company insisted that the most recent legal claim was made in error. The taxman, however, said it took action “where appropriate”.

Harland took steps to refinance its debt in November, moving from more than 12pc interest to cheaper but undisclosed terms.

In November it was part of a consortium including Spanish shipbuilder Navatia that won a £1.6bn contract to build three Royal Navy supply ships.

Up to 60pc of the work would be done in Britain, the company said, although the Government only committed to “the majority” of the shipbuild being done in the UK.

Harland was last awarded a Ministry of Defence contract to build a military boat in 1986. RFA Fort Victoria, a fleet tanker, was announced in 1990 and completed in 1994.”

wargame_insomniac
Senior Member
Posts: 1135
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by wargame_insomniac »

Further progress - I hope they can get a move on now, as apparently the new covered Shipbuilding Hall needs to be finished for starting the 4th T26, HMS London, the first of Batch 2. Although I guess there is nothing stoppping them to start London in the existing SBOH and then moving it when the new Hall is ready.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/huge-gl ... n-granted/

I do hope that the T83 is not expected to be more than 170 metres long.....
These users liked the author wargame_insomniac for the post:
dmereifield

tomuk
Senior Member
Posts: 1409
Joined: 20 Dec 2017, 20:24
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by tomuk »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 12 Feb 2023, 18:09
I do hope that the T83 is not expected to be more than 170 metres long.....
There is 30m of quay in front of the new assembly hall, 18m behind. Plus a further 80 odd meters of misc. sheds between the NAH and the Govan Road.
These users liked the author tomuk for the post:
wargame_insomniac

Poiuytrewq
Senior Member
Posts: 3958
Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Not much new here but still an ongoing commitment from HMG to the T32 programme as well increasing overall Frigate and Destroyer numbers.

Poiuytrewq
Senior Member
Posts: 3958
Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Although it will get zero fanfare this could be a pretty important development.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... ommunities
These users liked the author Poiuytrewq for the post (total 2):
SW1wargame_insomniac

Poiuytrewq
Senior Member
Posts: 3958
Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by Poiuytrewq »

A useful contract whilst preparations scale up for FSS.

https://www.harland-wolff.com/news/belf ... rbishment/
These users liked the author Poiuytrewq for the post:
jedibeeftrix

Poiuytrewq
Senior Member
Posts: 3958
Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Good news for Appledore if it happens.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/harland ... y-ferries/
These users liked the author Poiuytrewq for the post:
wargame_insomniac

new guy
Senior Member
Posts: 1184
Joined: 18 Apr 2023, 01:53
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by new guy »

I thought that the BMT design was already selected and in build? Anyone? When I went on the Sicilian it was the model on display.

Poiuytrewq
Senior Member
Posts: 3958
Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by Poiuytrewq »

This is still progressing apparently.

3 ships?

Hull one @£150m, hulls two & three “significantly less”. All to be built in UK yards.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... tor-three/

https://britanniamaritimeaid.com/

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2784
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by Caribbean »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 13 Sep 2023, 07:45 This is still progressing apparently.

3 ships?

Hull one @£150m, hulls two & three “significantly less”. All to be built in UK yards.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... tor-three/

https://britanniamaritimeaid.com/
Not quite sure what this has to do with a "Royal Yacht".

The "UKAID ship" concept was more closely related to the idea of a UK hospital ship than Brittania II (both good ideas which should be financed out of the aid budget)

Have they added a VVIP cabin or something?

Edit: For clarity - I'm saying that the UKAID & hospital ships were "both good ideas". Not the Royal Yacht
I'm fine with a Royal Yacht being built (say, by public donation and not from tax money), but not much point if the Royals don't want it
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by SKB »

:roll: Their Union Flag is back to front on both sides of the ship... :roll:
These users liked the author SKB for the post:
new guy

Poiuytrewq
Senior Member
Posts: 3958
Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Caribbean wrote: 13 Sep 2023, 08:52 Not quite sure what this has to do with a "Royal Yacht".

The "UKAID ship" concept was more closely related to the idea of a UK hospital ship than Brittania II (both good ideas which should be financed out of the aid budget)

Have they added a VVIP cabin or something?
The connection with the Royal Yacht is not clear. I suspect it’s more of a symbolic replacement.

Three vessels is very ambitious but if operated by a charity they should qualify for for funding through FCDO.

It would be great to see a bit more detail about the design and what medical facilities these vessels actually contain. The shape of the stern looks particularly interesting

A British success story waiting to happen.

dmereifield
Senior Member
Posts: 2762
Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by dmereifield »

We'll see if the programme actually goes anywhere....

Poiuytrewq
Senior Member
Posts: 3958
Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by Poiuytrewq »

dmereifield wrote: 13 Sep 2023, 10:39 We'll see if the programme actually goes anywhere....
On the balance of probability….don’t hold your breath.

Saying that, with a change of government, who knows.

tomuk
Senior Member
Posts: 1409
Joined: 20 Dec 2017, 20:24
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by tomuk »

A 135m design by Leadship. Shares lineage with their World Explorer Polar Cruise Ship.
It's project number is P19004.11 which follows on from a 135m ROPAX Ferry for Cammel Laird "Project Mona" P19004.10
https://www.leadship.com/blank

tomuk
Senior Member
Posts: 1409
Joined: 20 Dec 2017, 20:24
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by tomuk »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 13 Sep 2023, 18:43
dmereifield wrote: 13 Sep 2023, 10:39 We'll see if the programme actually goes anywhere....
On the balance of probability….don’t hold your breath.

Saying that, with a change of government, who knows.
Privately funded so not sure what effect a change of government has.

wargame_insomniac
Senior Member
Posts: 1135
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: UK Shipbuilding

Post by wargame_insomniac »

I think the idea of a new Royal Yacht is an awful idea. I think the idea of UK Aid ship, especially one funded by Foriegn and Commonwealth Office aid budget, is a great idea.

Especially if good sized hospital and able to take the burden of covering HADR from the lncreasingly stretched escort and ageing out group.

Post Reply