UK Defence Forum

I cant read the express article but does it give any reasons why US and Germany wont sell us the required numbers? Seem strange they wouldn't sell us the units.

Also are they upgraded in the states?

Jdam wrote: ↑12 Jan 2023, 17:08 I cant read the express article but does it give any reasons why US and Germany wont sell us the required numbers? Seem strange they wouldn't sell us the units.

No it does not. It only mentioned that UK had talks with countries I listed in previous post and that so far, were only able to obtain 7 additional systems. It does not mention that US and German declined to sell but neither that they will sell. Maybe still in negotiation but far from being certain to happen

Jdam wrote: ↑12 Jan 2023, 17:08 Also are they upgraded in the states?

LM is considering to upgrade British ones in the UK at Ampthill, but if not than yes, they will be upgraded in the US.

Ironic when we gifted Ukraine half a dozen M270, when the M270 is no longer being produced.
Meanwhile the US is gifting them 20+ HIMARS, and HIMARS still in production......

Well, if we can't get enough M270, maybe we need to get some HIMARS (or the two-podded version) as well. Personally, I think we need a LOT more artillery

There are other options to Himars of course ,this South Korean version is I believe cheaper and easier for transportation
https://www.military-today.com/artiller ... osan%20DST.

well maybe it is not a bad thing that we can't get enough M270's and we could go for a MAN 8x8 two Pod system with say 40 of each. With the 40 M270's deployed with DRS BCT and the MAN 8x8 with the Armoured BCT's

However once again the penny pinching comes home to roost

No mention of the remaining Norwegian launchers?

or, resurrect limaws...

Jdam wrote: ↑13 Jan 2023, 11:17 No mention of the remaining Norwegian launchers?

Norwegians, in conjunction with the UK, are sending 8 MLRS to Ukraine.

https://www.regjeringen.no/no/aktuelt/n ... id2977717/

In practice that means Norway is giving its M270 to the UK, who will then get them upgraded to A2 standard....and 8 UK M270B1 are heading to Ukraine...

Think this leaves 1 M270 in Norway which will presumably go to a museum...I assume this means Norway will now buy HIMARS or Chunmoo...

Seems like number of M270A2 will be increased to 71.

Germany puts GMLRS on a truck....

bobp wrote: ↑02 Aug 2023, 09:16 Germany puts GMLRS on a truck....

Well they are intending to put it on the truck and offer it to the German Army. First prototypes for testing are expected in 2025 if contract is signed. But Germany is also showing interest in buying Euro-PULS as a replacement for MARS II.

Good thread as ever from Gabi.



Confirms what we know already...
GMLRS as before...
GMLRS-ER
PrSM
LPS...which must be the CAMM/Brimstone mash-up

Royal Artillery have also wanted the Alternate Warhead for a while, expect some of those in amongst the GMLRS and GMLRS-ER orders.

The 'Area Effects Demonstrator - Alternative Payloads' appears to be the UK payload described below (click on the tweet to open up the images). MLRS rockets that dispense the LM Outrider UAS (made by Insyte, the ex-Hunting engineering company, all UK IP) for wide area search and a Thales Fury variant (Gliding LMM without a rocket motor, potentialy larger warhead and Thales Lo Cost seeker head...)...very interesting stuff. The payloads are carried by different rockets. Likely 3 per rocket.

Interesting implications for LMM as well if another seeker head becomes available...



Hopefully, we'll also be looking at GLSDB when it sees combat, its utility as a cheaper long range munition to bulk stocks out could be very useful, and at least keeping abreast of JFS-M which could offer a cheaper and complimentary long range capability alongside PrSM.

Either way its good news, all launchers upgraded to A2 standard, near doubling of fleet (including recovery), huge increase in capability and range...

But...I'm surprised there hasn't been mentioned of Soucy's Composite Rubber Tracks in relation to M270 in UK service. It would appear they would make perfect sense, particularly with lower vibration. Although its a tracked vehicle we're not expecting it to negotiate piles of rubble in destroyed towns so the CRT makes a whole lot of sense.

Now if only we could get all 76....and some LIMAWS(R)....all of the payloads above, then some AT2 Scatmin, SMArt for M270 (developed but never fielded)...and some old fashioned cluster munitions....we wouldn't have to wory about the number of Infantry Battalions as there would be nothing left of the enemy by the time they got in range...

What vehicle is needed to reload the MLRS and will they need more of these.

bobp wrote: ↑23 Aug 2023, 21:20 What vehicle is needed to reload the MLRS and will they need more of these.

M270 reloads itself. The launcher has a crane boom that lifts rocket modules from the ground and onto the rails that then retract into the body. Basically all you need is a flatbed truck with its own crane to offload to the ground (or you use the DROPS flatracks). M270 does the rest.

Ian Hall wrote: ↑24 Aug 2023, 10:15

I've been saying for an age that LPS would have an 80km range at least....some have doubted me...

Turns out they were right, but not in the right way...its 150km range...93 miles. That is gamechanging...

Timmymagic wrote: ↑24 Aug 2023, 18:05

Ian Hall wrote: ↑24 Aug 2023, 10:15

I've been saying for an age that LPS would have an 80km range at least....some have doubted me...

Turns out they were right, but not in the right way...its 150km range...93 miles. That is gamechanging...

150km against a moving target!

Any idea what the unit cost is, ballpark?

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑25 Aug 2023, 22:09

Timmymagic wrote: ↑24 Aug 2023, 18:05

Ian Hall wrote: ↑24 Aug 2023, 10:15

I've been saying for an age that LPS would have an 80km range at least....some have doubted me...

Turns out they were right, but not in the right way...its 150km range...93 miles. That is gamechanging...

150km against a moving target!

Any idea what the unit cost is, ballpark?

No idea. But....LPS (if the MBDA proposal is selected) utilises a Brimstone seeker head, probably uses CAMM data link, and would require a longer, slower burning rocket motor. It will cost more than Brimstone...but if done sensibly there is no reason why it couldn't be kept to within a price of c30% more. Thats probably around £140k per round now.

Timmymagic wrote: ↑25 Aug 2023, 23:10

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑25 Aug 2023, 22:09

Timmymagic wrote: ↑24 Aug 2023, 18:05

Ian Hall wrote: ↑24 Aug 2023, 10:15

I've been saying for an age that LPS would have an 80km range at least....some have doubted me...

Turns out they were right, but not in the right way...its 150km range...93 miles. That is gamechanging...

150km against a moving target!

Any idea what the unit cost is, ballpark?

No idea. But....LPS (if the MBDA proposal is selected) utilises a Brimstone seeker head, probably uses CAMM data link, and would require a longer, slower burning rocket motor. It will cost more than Brimstone...but if done sensibly there is no reason why it couldn't be kept to within a price of c30% more. Thats probably around £140k per round now.

This along with say GLSDB from SAAB with a price tag of say 70 to 80K would make M270a2 a very good option

I would like to see the Navy take these weapons on for Naval fire Support it could be as simple in the first place as 29 regt having a battery of M270a2 with one launcher on the LPD and Bay class working decks

Tempest414 wrote: ↑26 Aug 2023, 18:46
This along with say GLSDB from SAAB with a price tag of say 70 to 80K would make M270a2 a very good option

I would like to see the Navy take these weapons on for Naval fire Support it could be as simple in the first place as 29 regt having a battery of M270a2 with one launcher on the LPD and Bay class working decks

GLSDB would make a lot of sense, I think cost would be closer to $100k per round though (£80k) as the MoD will want new build M26 rockets propelling them rather than re-used with limited shelf life.

We might also have the MRUSW weapon, if it proceeds, to add to our own GLSDB equivalent. That would be a 'SpearSimple' variant. GPS and INS (and perhaps SAL) only.

For Naval Fire Support the easiest thing would be to use Sea Ceptor launchers.

Timmymagic wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 11:57

Tempest414 wrote: ↑26 Aug 2023, 18:46
This along with say GLSDB from SAAB with a price tag of say 70 to 80K would make M270a2 a very good option

I would like to see the Navy take these weapons on for Naval fire Support it could be as simple in the first place as 29 regt having a battery of M270a2 with one launcher on the LPD and Bay class working decks

GLSDB would make a lot of sense, I think cost would be closer to $100k per round though (£80k) as the MoD will want new build M26 rockets propelling them rather than re-used with limited shelf life.

We might also have the MRUSW weapon, if it proceeds, to add to our own GLSDB equivalent. That would be a 'SpearSimple' variant. GPS and INS (and perhaps SAL) only.

For Naval Fire Support the easiest thing would be to use Sea Ceptor launchers.

Maybe on the frigates but on the Amphibs having one or two M270's firing from the working deck would work they could then be moved ashore by LCU as needed to extend the range in land the important bit would be having NFS out to 150km's from the ship

To put that into perspective, you could be 20 miles off the UK coast, and a full lap of the UK would have every sq inch of the Country in range. Scary.

Not sure best place to post this.

A different form of shoot and scoot!