M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 3224
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Timmymagic »

Tempest414 wrote: 29 Jun 2022, 17:40 Isn't that 9 M-270 MLRS now 6 from the UK / Norway and 3 from Germany plus the 8 or so M142's from the US
Yes it is. Think the US is about to add another 4 HIMARS to the list soon as well.

Phil Sayers
Member
Posts: 365
Joined: 03 May 2015, 13:56

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Phil Sayers »

Unless I have missed something it is the additional four HIMARS that will take the total to eight - four having been the original announcement. More will follow in due course anyway once crews are trained.

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Lord Jim »

From what I have read, we are upgrading 36 M270s out of a remaining fleet of 44, so that would leave eight for delivery. OF teh 36 to be upgrades not all can already fire the GMLRS rockets. give how few M270 have been given to Ukraines I cannot see why we would need to obtain replacements from Norway, unless we now plan to upgrade more.

Little J
Member
Posts: 973
Joined: 02 May 2015, 14:35
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Little J »

Lord Jim wrote: 29 Jun 2022, 22:15 I cannot see why we would need to obtain replacements from Norway, unless we now plan to upgrade more.
My take on it (and obviously I could be wrong), was Norway wanted to donate, but their units aren't in good enough working order. So a quick deal with us and Robert is your mother's brother :thumbup:

sol
Member
Posts: 527
Joined: 01 Jul 2021, 09:11
Bosnia & Herzegovina

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by sol »

Lord Jim wrote: 29 Jun 2022, 22:15 From what I have read, we are upgrading 36 M270s out of a remaining fleet of 44, so that would leave eight for delivery.
Are you sure it is just 36, because every article I could find if saying that 44 will be upgraded

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Lord Jim »

Yes you are right. I got muddled up as each Regiment has a wartime strength of eighteen launchers each. The two Regiments are at present one Regular and one Reserve and the Reserve Regiment only has twelve launchers in peacetime. I believe the current launchers are the4 M270B1 standard. With the Deep Fired BCT is the Reserve Regiment losing its launchers to a Regular one? Do we know which Regiment is being converted to the upgraded M270s? Will both Regular Regiments have the full eighteen launchers or will the Reserve Regiment still exist to provide the remaining six launchers in wartime?

On a side note, the US Army has in addition to HIMARS, nearly 750 M270s launchers of various standards. Surely they can send more than they currently are, especially as tey like the UK have stated we are going to keep supporting Ukraine for the long haul.

I still think the UK should aim for an inventory of GMLRS units to be;
1x Regular Regiment (18x upgraded M270)
1x Reserve Regiment *18x M270 upgraded)
1x Regular Regiment (24x HIMARS)

The Regiment equipped with HIMARS would be one currently equipped with the 105mm Light Gun and would mainly be tasked with supporting operations outside of central and eastern Europe.

sol
Member
Posts: 527
Joined: 01 Jul 2021, 09:11
Bosnia & Herzegovina

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by sol »

Lord Jim wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 07:58 Yes you are right. I got muddled up as each Regiment has a wartime strength of eighteen launchers each. The two Regiments are at present one Regular and one Reserve and the Reserve Regiment only has twelve launchers in peacetime. I believe the current launchers are the4 M270B1 standard. With the Deep Fired BCT is the Reserve Regiment losing its launchers to a Regular one? Do we know which Regiment is being converted to the upgraded M270s? Will both Regular Regiments have the full eighteen launchers or will the Reserve Regiment still exist to provide the remaining six launchers in wartime?
The 3rd Regiment RHA will be the second regular regiment equipped with M270s. Both regiments will have two batteries in peace time, both with six launchers. 101st Regiment RA of TA will have same organisation. In the case of war, this regiment will provide third batteries to both regular regiments. So in the case of war, both regular regiments will still have 18 launchers, but now organised in three batteries of 6, instead two batteries of 9. The last 8 launchers will be for training and replacements.
Lord Jim wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 07:58 On a side note, the US Army has in addition to HIMARS, nearly 750 M270s launchers of various standards.
Wikipedia is giving a number of 991 M270 of all variants. 385 will be upgraded to M270A2 standard.

Rentaghost
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: 07 Sep 2020, 09:10
Scotland

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Rentaghost »

Given that GLMRS needs to provide for it's current role but also shortly to take on the very deep strike role with the PrSM but also the Army's Land Precision Strike (The Exactor replacememtn for hitting moving/armoured targets out deep to 80km) then surely this is definitely one area where increasing the number of available launchers (M270 or otherwise) is essential.

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5656
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by SW1 »

Doesnt necessarily have to be just the tracked launcher we go for, could buy the wheeled one too. Would argue that rather than invest in tube artillery these maybe better specially if we’re focusing on combat in urban environments and in the deep.

Would suggest we should consider the mbda offering they’re developing too

https://aviationweek.com/shownews/ila-b ... le-concept

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Lord Jim »

SHould definitely be looked at.

As for tube vs rocket artillery, shells are a cheaper option even with Precision Guidance kits. For urban areas something like Extractor or its replacements are probably better due to the reduced collateral damage from their smaller warheads. I still think we need more than just two Regiments of GMLRS, including their augmentation by the reserve Regiment.

I also think we should be looking at increasing the size of out tube artillery Regiments to four eight gun batteries. We should also be placing orders for newer more effective ammunition for our 155mm, not waiting for whatever replaces the AS-90. Finally, if we are retaining the 105mm Light Gun into the next decade or more we need to look at developing newer ammunition for it as well.

sol
Member
Posts: 527
Joined: 01 Jul 2021, 09:11
Bosnia & Herzegovina

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by sol »

First M270A2 delivered to US Army


sol
Member
Posts: 527
Joined: 01 Jul 2021, 09:11
Bosnia & Herzegovina

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by sol »

Seems like Britain will send three more M270 to Ukraine. This would mean that only 38 will left for the Army, including 3 old Norway MLRS.

inch
Senior Member
Posts: 1311
Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:35

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by inch »

What's the difference between the himas and the m270 that UK has , cheers in advance

mr.fred
Senior Member
Posts: 1468
Joined: 06 May 2015, 22:53
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by mr.fred »

inch wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 09:13 What's the difference between the himas and the m270 that UK has , cheers in advance
Himars is a single pod launcher on a truck, M270 is a twin pod launcher on a tracked carrier.
Or did you want a more detailed comparison
These users liked the author mr.fred for the post:
inch

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 3224
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Timmymagic »

inch wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 09:13 What's the difference between the himas and the m270 that UK has , cheers in advance
HIMARS has 6 rockets in a single pack, wheeled, with a slightly newer fire control system
Uk's M270B1 has 12 rockets in 2 packs, tracked, more heavily armoured, slightly older (but still modern fire control)

The Uk's M270B1 (and the 3 Norwegian M270) will be sent gradually to the US to get upgraded to the new M270A2 standard, the first of which was recently delivered to the US Army, this has a brand new fire control system derived from the HIMARS unit and ensures that the launchers are compatible with GMLRS-ER with tail control and the new PrSM missile, both of which the UK will be ordering.
These users liked the author Timmymagic for the post (total 2):
inchwargame_insomniac

Jdam
Member
Posts: 922
Joined: 09 May 2015, 22:26
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Jdam »

sol wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 08:24 Seems like Britain will send three more M270 to Ukraine. This would mean that only 38 will left for the Army, including 3 old Norway MLRS.
Any change of more from Norway to replace them?

sol
Member
Posts: 527
Joined: 01 Jul 2021, 09:11
Bosnia & Herzegovina

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by sol »

Jdam wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 11:08 Any change of more from Norway to replace them?
The only reason why Norway gave UK 3 M270 is that they wanted to donate them to Ukraine, but as theirs were not modernised and so can't fire GMLRS, they sent them to UK while UK gave Ukraine three of their own. This time UK is directly donating theirs so no, Norway will not replace these three.

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 3224
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Timmymagic »

Jdam wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 11:08 Any change of more from Norway to replace them?
The Norwegian's have 9 left (after the 3 given to the UK). They've been in storage since 2005, so are now technically useless for the Norwegian's unless they are upgraded to GMLRS capable as Norway is a signatory of the Cluster Munitions ban). In effect that will be M270A2 standard. They may choose to instead go directly to HIMARS if they want to resurrect the artillery rocket capability. If that's the case the opportunity to get 9 lightly used M270 could be there for the UK. The German's also have c100 M270 stored.

The question would be more would the UK want them instead of resurrecting LIMAWS(R) or HIMARS.

sol
Member
Posts: 527
Joined: 01 Jul 2021, 09:11
Bosnia & Herzegovina

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by sol »

Timmymagic wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 14:21 If that's the case the opportunity to get 9 lightly used M270 could be there for the UK.
Still that would mean UK would buy those launchers, not just getting them from Norway. They could easily buy US M270A0 and modernise it to M270A2 standard or directly buy completely new M270A2. Thing is there is an option to replace those donated or even increase their number, but not for free.

Jdam
Member
Posts: 922
Joined: 09 May 2015, 22:26
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Jdam »

I'm conflicted on giving these to Ukraine, on one side I am glad we are continuing to help out Ukraine but on the other side it feels like the government is using it as an opportunity for another stealth cut.

We seem to be giving lots away but I've not seen any plans for replacing the equipment we have given away.
These users liked the author Jdam for the post:
wargame_insomniac

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 3224
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Timmymagic »

sol wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 15:07 Still that would mean UK would buy those launchers, not just getting them from Norway. They could easily buy US M270A0 and modernise it to M270A2 standard or directly buy completely new M270A2.
If the Norwegian's got rid they'd give us a good price...plus all they'd need to do is stick them on the ferry from Oslo to Newcastle, the gunners at 101 Regt RA could drive a few miles down the road and pick them up...

Whatever we bought would need the upgrade to A2 standard (there are no new M270A2 in production, all upgrades from existing M270A1 and M270). The Norwegian units have been stored for 17 years though in climate controlled storage. Far less wear and tear than US units...

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 3224
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Timmymagic »

Some great news....

UK M270 fleet to be increased by between 50-100%. These will be upgraded UK M270 and refurbished launchers from other nations (perhaps Germany or Norway). Original buy of M270 was 67 during the late Cold War. Some of these were turned into recovery/repair vehicles.


sol
Member
Posts: 527
Joined: 01 Jul 2021, 09:11
Bosnia & Herzegovina

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by sol »

If British Army wants to keep 9 systems per battery, for 6 (4 regular + 2 TA), that would require at least 54 units. So probably some 60+ in total should suffice.

Jdam
Member
Posts: 922
Joined: 09 May 2015, 22:26
United Kingdom

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Jdam »

If this the first increase we have seen in something as a result of Ukraine or was this on the cards for a while?

Rentaghost
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: 07 Sep 2020, 09:10
Scotland

Re: M270 Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS)

Post by Rentaghost »

sol wrote: 22 Sep 2022, 14:40 If British Army wants to keep 9 systems per battery, for 6 (4 regular + 2 TA), that would require at least 54 units. So probably some 60+ in total should suffice.
Presumably if it went the full 100% increase from that tweet they'd be assuming 6 regular batteries? So two full regular 3 battery regiments (Starting from the 40 (ish) number)

Post Reply