RN anti-ship missiles

[RetroSicotte]

It does sound suspiciously like Fallon and crew are just aiming to avoid the "we have no Anti-ship missile" period.

So that after they retire Harpoon after Sea Venom is in, they can point to Sea Venom and claim that is the new modern anti-ship missile to protect our ships with our rising defence budget.

Average joe won't know the difference. All they need to do is convince enough people to make it a quiet shout from people who do know.

[marktigger]

and with that scenario anti ship missile capability will only be available to those ships carrying wildcat something else Joe public won't know

[ArmChairCivvy]

will only be available to those ships carrying wildcat something else Joe public won't know

Well, Wildcat is there for ASuW, another thing "Joe" would not know.

[ArmChairCivvy]

IOC 2019
vs.
senior RN sources told Jane’s the sea-skimming GWS 60/Harpoon Block 1C missiles would remain in service at least until 2020. “There is work ongoing to look at options for longer extension "
= is that longer extension (option; at what extra cost) just for insurance?

A year in between the two dates sounds like building a reasonable stockpile, rather than just having a couple for show



I was commenting on your assertion that Sea Venom had been accepted into service

Technical acceptance (after tests) and IOC are two different things

[topman]

The RN managed to get something past the accountants at the Treasury? I'm both surprised and pleased. That doesn't happen often.

What did it cost? A lower T31e budget or a few F35Bs...

That's a good question, I wonder what. You never get something for nothing.

[abc123]

About cost of service extension, IIRC it's about 500 000-700 000 USD per missile... Now, with 13 frigates and 6 destroyers ( each with 8 missiles ) that's about 200 missiles ( with few spare missiles ). So, about 100-150 mil. USD as cost...

[indeid]

About cost of service extension, IIRC it's about 500 000-1,5 mil. USD per missile... Now, with 13 frigates and 6 destroyers ( each with 8 missiles ) that's about 200 missiles ( with few spare missiles ). So, about 100-300 mil. USD as cost...

Where does it say the RN are buying new missiles?

The costs will be those related to servicing and maintaining the equipment and missiles, handling and storage facilities, engineer training and any external support contracts. It can quickly add up, especially if it is legacy hardware that you have to keep going.

If it was expected that it was going out of service then a cost saving been lost and will need replacing as well as finding the addition cash.

[abc123]

I don't see where did I say that the RN is buying the new equipment?

About the amount- 500-700 000 USD per missile isn't such insignificant amount, especially in these times of austerity...

[cyrilranch]

About cost of service extension, IIRC it's about 500 000-1,5 mil. USD per missile... Now, with 13 frigates and 6 destroyers ( each with 8 missiles ) that's about 200 missiles ( with few spare missiles ). So, about 100-300 mil. USD as cost...

[
At present it would be more like 48 (8 frigates and 4 destoryers) 24-72 million USD. I sure the MOD can find that much dosh ,maybe by selling the soon to be retired MHC boats/ships.

[Aethulwulf]

The full article in Jane's explains that the current Harpoon service contract expires in 2018 but MOD has decided not to extend the contract and will keep them in service using in-house expertise.

[abc123]

The full article in Jane's explains that the current Harpoon service contract expires in 2018 but MOD has decided not to extend the contract and will keep them in service using in-house expertise.

That might make things much cheaper...

[abc123]

About cost of service extension, IIRC it's about 500 000-1,5 mil. USD per missile... Now, with 13 frigates and 6 destroyers ( each with 8 missiles ) that's about 200 missiles ( with few spare missiles ). So, about 100-300 mil. USD as cost...

[
At present it would be more like 48 (8 frigates and 4 destoryers) 24-72 million USD. I sure the MOD can find that much dosh ,maybe by selling the soon to be retired MHC boats/ships.

Yeah, they would probably rotate them on deployed ships...

My mistake about 1,5 mil. trough, it should be somewhere about 700 000... Or more, you can never know. But with in house work, the numbers should be even lower, maybe even double lower...

[ArmChairCivvy]

At present it would be more like 48 (8 frigates and 4 destoryers) 24-72 million USD

This is what happens here, we accept someone's IIRC out-of-the-hat number... and run with it

service contract expires in 2018 but MOD has decided not to extend the contract and will keep them in service using in-house expertise

... that comes closer to "May be someone just noted down the expiry dates and they go out in that order?" which is what I said, before we had a little excursion into developing anti-swarm tactics:
Harpoon; anti-swarm; errm, ASW fits in there, somewhere in the middle

[bobp]

Backed by our rising defence budget blah blah blah we have decided to keep them in Service for a bit longer and hope we actually don't need to fire them blah blah. Did not Boeing offer to upgrade them?

[Lord Jim]

I wonder if some Civil Servant somewhere is looking in to the RN using empty but capped Harpoon Canisters to place on RN ships when the cameras are out. AS long as the labels are right who would know, then it would simply be a case of hoping they weren't actually needed. So job done, the RN still has ASMs and at minimal cost.

Alternatively we could extend the process we use for Trident and use US owned missiles etc. just lease them being careful to avoid any paint scratches or dent when we return them.

[indeid]

I wonder if some Civil Servant somewhere is looking in to the RN using empty but capped Harpoon Canisters to place on RN ships when the cameras are out. AS long as the labels are right who would know, then it would simply be a case of hoping they weren't actually needed. So job done, the RN still has ASMs and at minimal cost.

Alternatively we could extend the process we use for Trident and use US owned missiles etc. just lease them being careful to avoid any paint scratches or dent when we return them.

Why so sure it's Civil Servants making these decisions? More likely to be someone in uniform who will get a good report out of it and be long gone from the job before the problems arise.

[sunstersun]

Is there any contender for a replacement should they just decide to phase em out ?

[WhiteWhale]

While more of an 'anti-boat' missile then 'anti-ship' has there been much progress with the Thales LMM that was ordered some years back?

There was also some tests of the Brimstone from fixed ground positions for a possible naval role as well. Obviously these are far more suited to lighter OV's etc but still look interesting. And then there is the rather conspicuous lack of anti-ship missiles that can fit inside the F-35B and heavier armaments for the Lynx and Apache while they are on RN service.

[Repulse]

Whilst there is obviously a range dimension, but just wondering if you were on the receiving end which would you rather face - a large single missile, or a volley of 20+ 57mm shells spanning multiple watertight compartments?

[Ron5]

Faced with that choice, I'd chose a submarine to stand in.

[Timmymagic]

nd then there is the rather conspicuous lack of anti-ship missiles that can fit inside the F-35B and heavier armaments for the Lynx and Apache while they are on RN service.

F-35B carries PWIV and will carry Spear. Thats enough to ruin anyone's day right there.

Lynx has gone. And as for Apache? Anything getting 8-16 Hellfire (or eventually Brimstone 2) is going to feel it somewhat. LMM integration on Wildcat is due 2018-2019. Only thing holding that up is money.

[Repulse]

Faced with that choice, I'd chose a submarine to stand in.

Would love more SSNs, but perhaps a mini Torpedo laden sub deployable via davits instead...

[ArmChairCivvy]

perhaps a mini Torpedo laden sub deployable via davits instead..

Strengthen the davits? ... or float this one out of the dock, in the back:
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... rines.html

[Ron5]

Faced with that choice, I'd chose a submarine to stand in.

Would love more SSNs, but perhaps a mini Torpedo laden sub deployable via davits instead...

I was joking, didn't mean to belittle your point.

[Repulse]

I was joking, didn't mean to belittle your point.

No offense taken, just thinking out loud. We focus so much on SSMs and SSM defence, but just wondering if a modern ship could withstand a volley of shells. The main point being, how much would a main gun (or guns) with smart ammo could be a deterrence from attack for a T31e. The basis being that this would require simpler handling / maintenance and crew.