HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

For discussions on politics and current events.
Post Reply

Do you approve of the HS2/3 projects?

Yes. Build it now.
8
33%
Yes. But the route needs changing.
2
8%
No. Waste of time and money.
8
33%
No. The route needs changing.
0
No votes
Unaffected - Build it.
6
25%
Unaffected - Don't build it.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 24

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by SKB »

Image

Introduction
High Speed 2 (HS2) is a planned high-speed railway in the United Kingdom linking London, Birmingham, the East Midlands, Leeds and Manchester. It would be the second high-speed rail line in Britain, after High Speed 1 (HS1) which connects London to the Channel Tunnel. The line is to be built in a "Y" configuration, with London on the bottom of the "Y", Birmingham at the centre, Leeds at the top right and Manchester at the top left. Work on the first phase is scheduled to begin in 2017, reaching Birmingham by 2026, Crewe on the left leg of the "Y" by 2027, and fully completed by 2033. Speeds would be up to 250mph (400km/h).

Carlisle, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Liverpool, Newcastle, Preston, Sheffield and York will be linked to the network by HS2 trains running over existing slower tracks or edge-of-town HS2 stations. The HS2 project is being developed by High Speed Two (HS2) Ltd, a company limited by guarantee established by the UK government and has a projected cost of £56 billion. Peak hour capacity leaving Euston will more than triple once HS2 is running, increasing from 11,300 to 34,900.

The project is to be built in two phases. Phase 1 is from London to the West Midlands and phase 2 from the West Midlands to Leeds and Manchester. Phase 2 is split into two sub-phases. Phase 2a is from the West Midlands to Crewe. Phase 2b will extend the project from Crewe to Manchester, and the West Midlands to Leeds. The government’s decision will go through the parliamentary process for approval.

Although Parliament has approved the first two phases of construction, precise details of the plan and route have not been formalised, and are still open to negotiation and change. For example, the spur to Heathrow airport was dropped from the whole scheme in 2015, as was the HS1 to HS2 link, while the Crewe Hub has been added to the scheme. The sections either side of the Pennines are open to amended design to accommodate HS3 using sections of HS2 track.

HS3
High Speed 3 (HS3) or Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR) is a conceptual coast to coast, east-west rail line in northern England, connecting Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield and Hull. In March 2016 at the 2016 Budget the line was approved and £60 million development funding was provided for the preparation of a route plan for the line.

Image
These users liked the author SKB for the post:
wargame_insomniac

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: HS2 (High Speed 2 Railway Project)

Post by SKB »



Anyone affected or concerned about the HS2 project?

Found an interactive map of HS2 phase 1 from the official government website.
http://interactive-map.hs2.org.uk/

marktigger
Senior Member
Posts: 4640
Joined: 01 May 2015, 10:22
United Kingdom

Re: HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by marktigger »

the rail infrastructure of this country needs up dating it says allot that its cheaper to fly intercity than get a train. But given the victorians would recognise the rail network still that's understandable.
Would say some other projects need to happen to to the railways like routes west to Bristol, Wales, Devon and Cornwall. Adding in allot of branch lines. Beeching was wrong and we're suffering for it. improve capacity and you could do more bulk freight as well as passenger traffic.

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by SKB »

How HS1 was built

^ A documentary explaining how Britain's first High Speed railway (HS1) was built between the Channel Tunnel and London.

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by SKB »

The companies bidding for the West Coast Partnership rail franchise, which will design and run the HS2 high speed services between London and Birmingham, have been revealed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40364022

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Totally Chinese, this bidder
"MTR West Coast Partnership is a joint venture between Hong Kong's MTR Corporation and China's Guangshen Railway Company. "
but if the trains (and better still, the London Tube!) could be made to run like the Hong Kong metro, then I have no objections
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by SKB »

Image
In other train-related news, Crossrail's 'Elizabeth Line' started service today between Liverpool Street and Shenfield.
http://londonist.com/london/transport/n ... unch-today

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 3224
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by Timmymagic »

SKB wrote:Anyone affected or concerned about the HS2 project?
Definitely. I've been to presentations by the project team. All very good, very glossy. But....I don't think/hope it's going to see the light of day for a whole host of very good reasons.

1) The cost is going to rise and rise. Think CND estimates for Trident...
2)The conflicts of interest recently, and there is another on the way, have been very disturbing and do not give confidence that the programme is being well managed/governed. Badly managed/governed programmes never deliver.
3)Agree with MarkTiggers assessment. We do need to invest in rail, re-opening old Beeching lines on a light rail basis, improving commuter trains capacity (esp.London), removing bottlenecks, lengthening platforms, renewing tunnels (if Brunel was alive today he'd tear down some of his own infrastructure without a second thought), improving signalling, increased freight would all have a vastly greater effect on the countries rail network and transport problems than HS2 which solves few. Spend £50bn+ on the rail network as it stands, maybe even a few light rail systems/trams in cities that haven't got them is a way better investment.

Granted if HS2 arrived I'd be a regular user of it, I'll have probably retired by then though... :D , but with modern technology face 2 face meetings etc just aren't as necessary as they once were. And even if they are, travellng on a modern train at present with decent wi-fi and a mobile means you can be productive on the train. There is just no real business need, which is where the money is. I usually get more work done on the train than I do in the office, I know a lot of people say the same thing. It would be convenient to knock 30-45 mins off the journey time, but quite frankly that adds little for an eye watering cost.

I'm a huge fan of sensible infrastructure investment, as a country we've neglected it for too long. High Speed Rail is genuinely wonderful as well, I've been on most European high speed services. But it only really makes sense as part of an integrated transport plan. IF you wanted to make HS2 (and HS3 which in my mind is crucial to its success) worthwhile you need to remove some competition. A way to do that would be to ban all domestic flights between UK cities connected by high speed rail. This would reduce congestion in the air, free up space for long haul and could remove the need for the third runway at Heathrow. It may even encourage greater development of regional airports for long haul and point to point connections internationally.

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by SKB »


(BBC News)

London now has a direct Eurostar e320 service from London St. Pancras station to Amsterdam Centraal station on HS1.

The e320 has a maximum speed of 200 mph (320 kph), and are faster than the 186 mph (300 kph) e300 trains that are now up to 25 years old.

The first London-Amsterdam train left London at 08:31 on 4th April 2018, setting a new record on the way to Amsterdam by reaching Brussels, Belgium in only 1 hour and 46 minutes.


(Jake Hardiman)

A passengers eye view of the trip. Begins @ 2:30.

zanahoria
Member
Posts: 234
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 22:21
United Kingdom

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by zanahoria »

Building HS2 provides much needed capacity on a network that has barely sufficient space to accommodate the current paths of passenger and freight trains.

Timmymagic’s alternative solution of upgrading the existing network as a more cost effective & efficient use of scarce resources isn’t borne out by experience: it is cheaper and more efficient to start from scratch without the headache working on a live railway. The upgrade of the West Coast Main Line is a case in point. Billions spent & it’s already pretty much at capacity.

The usual gripe about HS2 is the (understandable) objection towards spending billions to cut the journey time between Birmingham and London. This is something of s red herring, as the main benefit is the greater capacity and therefore more reliable connections between English cities, leading to greater productivity & economic wealth.
These users liked the author zanahoria for the post:
wargame_insomniac

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by SKB »

PM Boris Johnson has today given the go-ahead to build HS2.


User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Well, winding back by three years (here... what was the length of a Parliament, again?)
Timmymagic wrote:. A way to do that would be to ban all domestic flights between UK cities connected by high speed rail. This would reduce congestion in the air, free up space for long haul and could remove the need for the third runway at Heathrow.
Some Green-ery here, without knocking Global Britain off its pedestal as one of the main international hubs
... but this next one (though desirable) is wishful thinking; or here, is it "a bridge too far" - still 'transportation'?
Timmymagic wrote:It may even encourage greater development of regional airports for long haul and point to point connections internationally.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by SKB »

China has offered to build HS2, cheaper, with faster trains, and only in five years.
https://www.building.co.uk/news/chinese ... 68.article

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by SKB »

The Government has issued HS2 with the formal notice to proceed with phase one works throwing the industry a major lifeline amid the coronavirus crisis.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... gh-speed-2

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by SKB »


(HS2 Ltd) 28th February 2019

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by SKB »

Some 'boring' news.... work on drilling new train tunnels through the Chiltern Hills for HS2 has begun....

Online
RunningStrong
Senior Member
Posts: 1304
Joined: 06 May 2015, 20:52

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by RunningStrong »

Timmymagic wrote:.
3)Agree with MarkTiggers assessment. We do need to invest in rail, re-opening old Beeching lines on a light rail basis, improving commuter trains capacity (esp.London), removing bottlenecks, .
That's exactly what HS2 does. It even improves services in Aberystwyth because it removes the limited capacity available at Birmingham New Street. It benefits the network far, far wider than just the immediate route.

Get it built, and start building a South Wales line with parkway stations by 2030.
These users liked the author RunningStrong for the post (total 2):
zanahoriawargame_insomniac

serge750
Senior Member
Posts: 1068
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:34
United Kingdom

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by serge750 »

Personally i think they should of done 'HS-3" first to connect Newcastle to York, Hull , leeds, Manchester etc, the nothern - east, west connections would be more beneficial to northern england, london should not be the priority as the line between london - birmingham is not as bad as the N england routes, i live in kent so it does not effect me but if the UK gov wanted to "Level up" the economy it would of been a better place to start, even just for PR purposes, just to show that the Govs are not mainly thinking of london

They have crossrail :lol: :lol: :lol: i know a different concept.
These users liked the author serge750 for the post:
wargame_insomniac

User avatar
Pseudo
Senior Member
Posts: 1732
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:37
Tuvalu

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by Pseudo »

serge750 wrote:Personally i think they should of done 'HS-3" first to connect Newcastle to York, Hull , leeds, Manchester etc, the nothern - east, west connections would be more beneficial to northern england, london should not be the priority as the line between london - birmingham is not as bad as the N england routes, i live in kent so it does not effect me but if the UK gov wanted to "Level up" the economy it would of been a better place to start, even just for PR purposes, just to show that the Govs are not mainly thinking of london

They have crossrail :lol: :lol: :lol: i know a different concept.
I completely agree that it would have been cheaper and less controversial (and most importantly more convenient for me :D) if they'd started on either HS3 or the second phase of HS2 first. It's pretty easy to envisage many of those complaining about the first phase being build complaining that the government was spending money on a high speed network in the north when the southern network urgently needs more capacity.

Sadly, I think that's where that otherwise brilliant idea falls down because it'd disenchant a lot a southern voters.

serge750
Senior Member
Posts: 1068
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:34
United Kingdom

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by serge750 »

Never thought about loosing the southern votes

To me its seems quite a niche thing to have from london to birmingham but i'm sure some people do

topman
Member
Posts: 771
Joined: 07 May 2015, 20:56
Tokelau

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by topman »

I'd thought the same as well, the only way to ensure hs3 is built is to build it first. However doing a bit of digging online, from those who seem to know what they are talking about say its impractical to do it that way around.
I honestly can't remember the reasons but I do remember thinking it was a pity as if it were done that way it would guarantee hs3 and hs2 would be built.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Err, Global Britain - for the North as well?

The hi-speed hub has already been changed to the North of the Thames so that Heathrow, London and the Continent (the Chunnel connection) will all get served
- we can only have one world-class hub (in the way of airports) as the competition is stiff for catching the feeder liners from all over Europe
- pissess me off greatly as getting to LHR (for now) is far from convenient - for me :(
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by SW1 »

Really interesting area that has much debate at present in connected to how has the movement of people on train and plane in particular been changed by the pandemic or more accurately what’s trends have been accelerated.

Efficient high speed rail should be the mode of choice for sub 300 mile trips and both HS lines make sense we should press on with both as it helps so many areas. We will most likely see more longer distance and less frequent work related travel and probably at less predictable times.

On the air side I think there is going to be less hub transit more point to point travel and more bypass hub travel, aircraft are now available that make this economically viable and major airlines have been saying for a while that feeder flights to hubs a lot of the time lose them money especially in Europe, politics has meant airfleets we’re difficult to change but no longer. I think if ur looking at any airline that may indicate the direction of travel it would be jet blue.

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: HS1/HS2/HS3 (High Speed Railway Projects)

Post by SKB »

HS2 Tunnels Being Dug In Chiltern Hills

(Geoff Marshall) 12th August 2021
Out in the Chilterns a 16Km tunnel and 3Km bridge are being built as part of the construction of the HS2 line. We were invited to the site near West Hyde in the Colne Valley to see the construction works and tunnel boring machines up close along with many many concrete tunnel segments!

Post Reply