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Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 22 Jan 2021, 01:54
by Lord Jim
Back blast is an issue for some rounds but they also have ones that can now be safely fired in enclosed spaces. If conflicts are going to be conducted increasingly in urban areas, a weapon like the M4 CG will become more and more useful.
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 22 Jan 2021, 14:20
by mr.fred
Lord Jim wrote:Back blast is an issue for some rounds but they also have ones that can now be safely fired in enclosed spaces. If conflicts are going to be conducted increasingly in urban areas, a weapon like the M4 CG will become more and more useful.
Provided that the six rounds/day limit can be addressed.
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 22 Jan 2021, 14:32
by ArmChairCivvy
mr.fred wrote:Provided that the six rounds/day limit can be addressed.
The previous plastics/ composites limit (err, gets a bit hot when firing) related to the over-the-whole-life number of shots fired
... and there was no counter, so the poor-old CGs got discarded about half way thru their lives
Is this now what applies?
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 22 Jan 2021, 14:35
by mr.fred
Sorry, that should have been 6shots/day user limit.
You could hand it to someone else who hadn’t been nearby once you’ve fired your six, or go over with increased risk of overpressure injury.
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 22 Jan 2021, 15:40
by ArmChairCivvy
Right; elf&safety then
... I know/knew a lot of people who did a lot of shooting, and paid no attention
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 23 Jan 2021, 16:27
by mr.fred
Don’t confuse Health and Safety with the grubby little workplace dictators who use it for the power it gives them.
It can be a force for good.
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 17 Sep 2021, 02:02
by Lord Jim
The use of nearly all equipment is limited during training. The Challenger 2 etc. have a pretty restrictive mileage they are allowed per year for example. At least the Carl Gustav comes with a sub calibre training round that doesn't effect the barrel.
The Army should be seriously looking at the M$ version for its smaller SF orientated units as a minimum level of adoption. The US Army loves its M3 and M4 variants and other nations such as Canada are dusting off their old M2s, the version we used to use.
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 18 May 2022, 15:47
by leonard
The Carl Gustav and the German DND RGW 90 have both been defeated by the Instalaza CS90 for the Italian Naval Infantry Brigade tender
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 19 May 2022, 02:38
by Lord Jim
The Italian do like to adopt infantry weapons that they themselves produce, and have done since WW2. In some cases indigenously designed, in other licenced production, There are exceptions though, but they are pretty good at it.
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 29 Mar 2023, 12:34
by sol
Carl Gustaf is back!
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 06 Apr 2023, 15:26
by sol
Ammunition types that will be initially ordered for CG
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 06 Apr 2023, 15:37
by BB85
Does this applications outside of what NLAW delivers or why is the MOD purchasing two light anti tank missiles?
Is it cheaper?
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 06 Apr 2023, 15:46
by Timmymagic
Lord Jim wrote: ↑19 May 2022, 02:38
The Italian do like to adopt infantry weapons that they themselves produce, and have done since WW2. In some cases indigenously designed, in other licenced production, There are exceptions though, but they are pretty good at it.
Instalanza is Spanish.
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 06 Apr 2023, 15:54
by sol
BB85 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2023, 15:37
Does this applications outside of what NLAW delivers or why is the MOD purchasing two light anti tank missiles?
It is supposed to replace Matadors sent to Ukraine and supposedly it will be used on platoon level, not in section. Basically it should cover the roles that platoon 51mm/60mm mortar previously did. Plus as anti-structure weapon.
BB85 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2023, 15:37
Is it cheaper?
Yes.
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 06 Apr 2023, 17:09
by Timmymagic
BB85 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2023, 15:37
Does this applications outside of what NLAW delivers or why is the MOD purchasing two light anti tank missiles?
Is it cheaper?
NLAW is a specialist AT weapon. It could be used as direct fire for other targets, but you'd be wasting a £20k munition that you should really be saving for an MBT turning up. As a result the Army have other systems for 'softer' targets. The LAW 66 in its LASM variant was procured as a small anti-structure variant, but will also defeat any armoured vehicle up to an MBT. Same as the remainder of out AT4 CS stockpile (which was originally purchased whilst we waited for NLAW to arrive). We also have Matador ASM, which is a variant of the German/Israeli RGW-90. Similar purpose as LASM.
The advantage of CG is that it's re-usable and has other ammunition natures available. Think of it as the Western Worlds RPG-7...
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 06 Apr 2023, 21:03
by Caribbean
Timmymagic wrote: ↑06 Apr 2023, 17:09
BB85 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2023, 15:37
Does this applications outside of what NLAW delivers or why is the MOD purchasing two light anti tank missiles?
Is it cheaper?
NLAW is a specialist AT weapon. It could be used as direct fire for other targets, but you'd be wasting a £20k munition that you should really be saving for an MBT turning up. As a result the Army have other systems for 'softer' targets. The LAW 66 in its LASM variant was procured as a small anti-structure variant, but will also defeat any armoured vehicle up to an MBT. Same as the remainder of out AT4 CS stockpile (which was originally purchased whilst we waited for NLAW to arrive). We also have Matador ASM, which is a variant of the German/Israeli RGW-90. Similar purpose as LASM.
The advantage of CG is that it's re-usable and has other ammunition natures available. Think of it as the Western Worlds RPG-7...
Didn't one take out a T-72 in Ukraine recently? Very short range and used by someone who knew exactly where to hit the tank, but still rather impressive.
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 06 Apr 2023, 22:36
by sol
Caribbean wrote: ↑06 Apr 2023, 21:03
Didn't one take out a T-72 in Ukraine recently?
There was a rumor that first documented destruction of T-90M is done by Carl Gustaf. But this was debunked and actually Russian tank destroyed disabled T-90M to prevent capture. But it is possible that Carl Gustaf disable it. It is not impossible for CG to penetrate T-72 armour, especially from the side of from behind, after all 551 HEAT round, which UK is buying, should penetrate 400mm RHA, which should be enough for light armoured vehicles and some tanks from certain angles.
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 06 Apr 2023, 22:59
by Caribbean
sol wrote: ↑06 Apr 2023, 22:36
Caribbean wrote: ↑06 Apr 2023, 21:03
Didn't one take out a T-72 in Ukraine recently?
There was a rumor that first documented destruction of T-90M is done by Carl Gustaf. But this was debunked and actually Russian tank destroyed disabled T-90M to prevent capture. But it is possible that Carl Gustaf disable it. It is not impossible for CG to penetrate T-72 armour, especially from the side of from behind, after all 551 HEAT round, which UK is buying, should penetrate 400mm RHA, which should be enough for light armoured vehicles and some tanks from certain angles.
Video, not a rumour. The shot was through a road wheel into the lower left side of the engine compartment. This resulted in the tank catching fire and the crew abandoning the vehicle.
If it was a T-90, that's quite impressive, as it was probably last-generation ammunition, but I think it was a T-72
Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)
Posted: 07 Apr 2023, 00:00
by Timmymagic
Caribbean wrote: ↑06 Apr 2023, 21:03
Didn't one take out a T-72 in Ukraine recently? Very short range and used by someone who knew exactly where to hit the tank, but still rather impressive.
A LAW 66 can take out a T-72/80/90 if you hit it in the right place...it can kill an M1 or CR2 as well...
The beauty of NLAW is that it doesn't care...
CG with simple munitions makes sense, even programmable airburst. But any complex AT rounds are a waste of time. We've got plenty of NLAW and Javelin for that. To be honest CG only makes real sense if we bring back 60mm mortar as well...the more HE we can chuck at the enemy the better.