Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by Lord Jim »

Back blast is an issue for some rounds but they also have ones that can now be safely fired in enclosed spaces. If conflicts are going to be conducted increasingly in urban areas, a weapon like the M4 CG will become more and more useful.

Online
mr.fred
Senior Member
Posts: 1468
Joined: 06 May 2015, 22:53
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by mr.fred »

Lord Jim wrote:Back blast is an issue for some rounds but they also have ones that can now be safely fired in enclosed spaces. If conflicts are going to be conducted increasingly in urban areas, a weapon like the M4 CG will become more and more useful.
Provided that the six rounds/day limit can be addressed.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

mr.fred wrote:Provided that the six rounds/day limit can be addressed.
The previous plastics/ composites limit (err, gets a bit hot when firing) related to the over-the-whole-life number of shots fired
... and there was no counter, so the poor-old CGs got discarded about half way thru their lives

Is this now what applies?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Online
mr.fred
Senior Member
Posts: 1468
Joined: 06 May 2015, 22:53
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by mr.fred »

Sorry, that should have been 6shots/day user limit.
You could hand it to someone else who hadn’t been nearby once you’ve fired your six, or go over with increased risk of overpressure injury.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Right; elf&safety then
... I know/knew a lot of people who did a lot of shooting, and paid no attention
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Online
mr.fred
Senior Member
Posts: 1468
Joined: 06 May 2015, 22:53
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by mr.fred »

Don’t confuse Health and Safety with the grubby little workplace dictators who use it for the power it gives them.
It can be a force for good.

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by Lord Jim »

The use of nearly all equipment is limited during training. The Challenger 2 etc. have a pretty restrictive mileage they are allowed per year for example. At least the Carl Gustav comes with a sub calibre training round that doesn't effect the barrel.

The Army should be seriously looking at the M$ version for its smaller SF orientated units as a minimum level of adoption. The US Army loves its M3 and M4 variants and other nations such as Canada are dusting off their old M2s, the version we used to use.

leonard
Member
Posts: 191
Joined: 21 May 2016, 17:52
Italy

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by leonard »

The Carl Gustav and the German DND RGW 90 have both been defeated by the Instalaza CS90 for the Italian Naval Infantry Brigade tender

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by Lord Jim »

The Italian do like to adopt infantry weapons that they themselves produce, and have done since WW2. In some cases indigenously designed, in other licenced production, There are exceptions though, but they are pretty good at it.

sol
Member
Posts: 528
Joined: 01 Jul 2021, 09:11
Bosnia & Herzegovina

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by sol »

Carl Gustaf is back!

These users liked the author sol for the post (total 2):
Ron5Tempest414

sol
Member
Posts: 528
Joined: 01 Jul 2021, 09:11
Bosnia & Herzegovina

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by sol »

Ammunition types that will be initially ordered for CG


BB85
Member
Posts: 218
Joined: 09 Sep 2021, 20:17
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by BB85 »

Does this applications outside of what NLAW delivers or why is the MOD purchasing two light anti tank missiles?
Is it cheaper?

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 3224
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by Timmymagic »

Lord Jim wrote: 19 May 2022, 02:38 The Italian do like to adopt infantry weapons that they themselves produce, and have done since WW2. In some cases indigenously designed, in other licenced production, There are exceptions though, but they are pretty good at it.
Instalanza is Spanish.

sol
Member
Posts: 528
Joined: 01 Jul 2021, 09:11
Bosnia & Herzegovina

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by sol »

BB85 wrote: 06 Apr 2023, 15:37 Does this applications outside of what NLAW delivers or why is the MOD purchasing two light anti tank missiles?
It is supposed to replace Matadors sent to Ukraine and supposedly it will be used on platoon level, not in section. Basically it should cover the roles that platoon 51mm/60mm mortar previously did. Plus as anti-structure weapon.
BB85 wrote: 06 Apr 2023, 15:37 Is it cheaper?
Yes.
These users liked the author sol for the post (total 3):
Lord JimCaribbeanDjpowell1984

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 3224
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by Timmymagic »

BB85 wrote: 06 Apr 2023, 15:37 Does this applications outside of what NLAW delivers or why is the MOD purchasing two light anti tank missiles?
Is it cheaper?
NLAW is a specialist AT weapon. It could be used as direct fire for other targets, but you'd be wasting a £20k munition that you should really be saving for an MBT turning up. As a result the Army have other systems for 'softer' targets. The LAW 66 in its LASM variant was procured as a small anti-structure variant, but will also defeat any armoured vehicle up to an MBT. Same as the remainder of out AT4 CS stockpile (which was originally purchased whilst we waited for NLAW to arrive). We also have Matador ASM, which is a variant of the German/Israeli RGW-90. Similar purpose as LASM.

The advantage of CG is that it's re-usable and has other ammunition natures available. Think of it as the Western Worlds RPG-7...

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2784
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by Caribbean »

Timmymagic wrote: 06 Apr 2023, 17:09
BB85 wrote: 06 Apr 2023, 15:37 Does this applications outside of what NLAW delivers or why is the MOD purchasing two light anti tank missiles?
Is it cheaper?
NLAW is a specialist AT weapon. It could be used as direct fire for other targets, but you'd be wasting a £20k munition that you should really be saving for an MBT turning up. As a result the Army have other systems for 'softer' targets. The LAW 66 in its LASM variant was procured as a small anti-structure variant, but will also defeat any armoured vehicle up to an MBT. Same as the remainder of out AT4 CS stockpile (which was originally purchased whilst we waited for NLAW to arrive). We also have Matador ASM, which is a variant of the German/Israeli RGW-90. Similar purpose as LASM.

The advantage of CG is that it's re-usable and has other ammunition natures available. Think of it as the Western Worlds RPG-7...
Didn't one take out a T-72 in Ukraine recently? Very short range and used by someone who knew exactly where to hit the tank, but still rather impressive.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

sol
Member
Posts: 528
Joined: 01 Jul 2021, 09:11
Bosnia & Herzegovina

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by sol »

Caribbean wrote: 06 Apr 2023, 21:03 Didn't one take out a T-72 in Ukraine recently?
There was a rumor that first documented destruction of T-90M is done by Carl Gustaf. But this was debunked and actually Russian tank destroyed disabled T-90M to prevent capture. But it is possible that Carl Gustaf disable it. It is not impossible for CG to penetrate T-72 armour, especially from the side of from behind, after all 551 HEAT round, which UK is buying, should penetrate 400mm RHA, which should be enough for light armoured vehicles and some tanks from certain angles.

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2784
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by Caribbean »

sol wrote: 06 Apr 2023, 22:36
Caribbean wrote: 06 Apr 2023, 21:03 Didn't one take out a T-72 in Ukraine recently?
There was a rumor that first documented destruction of T-90M is done by Carl Gustaf. But this was debunked and actually Russian tank destroyed disabled T-90M to prevent capture. But it is possible that Carl Gustaf disable it. It is not impossible for CG to penetrate T-72 armour, especially from the side of from behind, after all 551 HEAT round, which UK is buying, should penetrate 400mm RHA, which should be enough for light armoured vehicles and some tanks from certain angles.
Video, not a rumour. The shot was through a road wheel into the lower left side of the engine compartment. This resulted in the tank catching fire and the crew abandoning the vehicle.

If it was a T-90, that's quite impressive, as it was probably last-generation ammunition, but I think it was a T-72
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 3224
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: Gun 84mm Infantry L14a1 (CARL GUSTAV)

Post by Timmymagic »

Caribbean wrote: 06 Apr 2023, 21:03 Didn't one take out a T-72 in Ukraine recently? Very short range and used by someone who knew exactly where to hit the tank, but still rather impressive.
A LAW 66 can take out a T-72/80/90 if you hit it in the right place...it can kill an M1 or CR2 as well...

The beauty of NLAW is that it doesn't care...

CG with simple munitions makes sense, even programmable airburst. But any complex AT rounds are a waste of time. We've got plenty of NLAW and Javelin for that. To be honest CG only makes real sense if we bring back 60mm mortar as well...the more HE we can chuck at the enemy the better.

Post Reply