Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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shark bait
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

all sounds very expensive, keeping these big things sat still for years and then starting them up again is a big challenge.
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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i hope they have fitted new desalinators as the demands for fresh water will be massivly increased!

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

shark bait wrote:all sounds very expensive, keeping these big things sat still for years and then starting them up again is a big challenge.
False economies? But better than having lost them forever
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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They certainly save crew and fuel costs, but they're not saving any maintenance costs.

I suppose it's better than having one, which means we would have to have none half the time
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

shark bait wrote:we would have to have none half the time
Making the ARG two or three Coys... That is not a Bn nor a BG; what can you achieve with such a construct?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by GibMariner »

Remembrance Service aboard HMS Bulwark East of Suez:

Image
Image
Image
Image

https://twitter.com/HMSBulwark/status/7 ... 5492922368

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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HMS Bulwark in Israel


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shark bait
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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Jef's split up!
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by dmereifield »

Just saw this from a poster on warships1discussions:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... dacted.pdf

Out of service dates for amphibious ships:


HMS Albion: 2033
HMS Bulwark: 2034
RFA Lyme Bay: 2032
RFA Mounts Bay: 2031
RFA Cardigan Bay: 2031

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

dmereifield wrote:Just saw this from a poster on warships1discussions:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... dacted.pdf
Out of service dates for amphibious ships:
HMS Albion: 2033
HMS Bulwark: 2034
RFA Lyme Bay: 2032
RFA Mounts Bay: 2031
RFA Cardigan Bay: 2031
Thanks a lot! Very interesting number they are. So, it is not that far away. Even earlier than the last 5 T23GP.

Ring, ring, ring. I hear an alert there.

"5 LPD replacements or 5 T31, which will you chose?"

"Even in 2036, Daring is only 27 years "young". How can we keep ship building industry going along?" (may need another set of OPVs of the day, replacing the ~15 years old River B.2s?)

Sorry, may be I am too pessimistic here....

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Not to worry, by that time Mr. Putin will be in an old peoples home (a whole dacha on the Pitzunga Island for him).
- a re-enforced company raid from one of the QEs is all that will be needed
-no, no, not to get him! To burn a few villages on the coast of Somalia, to nib a resurgence of pirate activity in the bud

...as Mr. Trump will have scared the ASEAN and Japan into declaring the, for a while defunct ,Co-Prosperity Zone (Taiwan is granted an Observers status)
- so they will take care of their own show there

All we will need to do is to keep everyone on the route from the Gulf to Europe toeing the line (even though energy imports from the East to the Continent of Europe will be building up again, after reaching a bottom)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

I think we can expect the bays to be going well after those dates, we can see the MOD squeezes as much life as it can out of the auxiliaries.

Albion replacements can't come soon enough, those dates do lie at a challenging time, inline with dreadnought, T26, T32 and MHC builds.

Today the ship building budget has the capacity to build carrier's, OPV's and auxiliaries at the same time, which indicates building LHD's, Frigates and MCMV's at the same time is feasible.
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by marktigger »

fingers crossed

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by WhitestElephant »

I suspect the replacements for Albion and Bulwark will slot in between the end of T26 construction and the beginning of T45 replacement. However Albion and Bulwark will have to soldier on for a couple more years past the OSD shown here.
Though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are. - Lord Tennyson (Ulysses)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by Gabriele »

This is EXACTLY the sort of thing that a serious and meaningful shipbuilding strategy should address. When, how many, where?
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by marktigger »

I would hope that would be the case as well hopefully something like HMAS Canberra or SNS Juan Carlos I

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

WhitestElephant wrote: replacements for Albion and Bulwark will slot in between the end of T26 construction and the beginning of T45 replacement. However Albion and Bulwark will have to soldier on for a couple more years past the OSD shown
Not a problem, as the T26 and 45-next will be one production run, faster or slower
... so , as someone here said, the lego-ships will be fitted in between (and the military fitting out on those two - assuming two - will be much less than even on a lego frigate... call these Duplo-ships then!)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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Sir Parker recommends a 30 year plan, so if the MOD pick up that highly sensible recommendation they should be pencilling an LHD programme.

Or they will 'accept', the finding and write a response, that commissions a study, that will call for a report, that will produce a plan that keeps kicking away the though decisions. That's what seems to be happening at present.

I wouldn't want to pigeon hole any 'design' at this stage. A future LPH has a wide range to choose from, from the cheap and chearful Mistral class, to more expensive and F35 capable options like what the Italians are planning, or something in between like the Canberra's. It has to respond to what money is around at the time, the surface fleet cant sustain more cuts like it has done to fit in the carriers.
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

shark bait wrote:I wouldn't want to pigeon hole any 'design' at this stage. A future LPH has a wide range to choose from
Agreed, the ship-to-shore connector (effectiveness) study is a precursor to any new designs being instructed (by way of spelling out rqrmnts "must" and "nice" to haves).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by marktigger »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
shark bait wrote:I wouldn't want to pigeon hole any 'design' at this stage. A future LPH has a wide range to choose from
Agreed, the ship-to-shore connector (effectiveness) study is a precursor to any new designs being instructed (by way of spelling out rqrmnts "must" and "nice" to haves).
partially I would agree but that study should look at the needs of the Royal navy and Royal Marines and not try to ape the USMC on a smaller scale.

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Exactly what it is doing.

Have not heard anything at all, though, since the terms of reference were reported (not sure they were even published in full)
- Vikings have come back from refurb; the non-amphibious heavier vehicles (band-tracked) have gone out of service
- anyone know when the BV replacement is due to be decided?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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I don't think a smaller scale USMC would be a bad thing.

Scrap the strike brigade's, split off the Royal Marines and build up as an expeditionary army?
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

shark bait wrote:split off the Royal Marines and build up as an expeditionary army?
That is what the French did. Luckily big parts of that force are now in the "Joint Expeditionary Force"
- operational THIS year
- would have expected more fanfare
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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