Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

Post by R686 »

Pseudo wrote: Unnamed Russian sources have claimed that they will be funding Egypt's Mistral in return for Egypt purchasing an undisclosed number of Ka-52's. Though that could very well just be Russia trying to piss on everyone's parade.

if that turns out to be true I do wonder if they will end up in Russian hands by default anyway, smoke and mirrors

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

My reading was a 100% suppliers credit for the helos, i.e
1. Egypt would get the ship into a functioning order w/o paying anything (more) upfront
2. The Russian budget is spluttering badly under the weight of their rearmament program, so a temporary switch of output a la French style to get some reprieve - while creating a show case for further exports
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

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HMS Bulwark arriving in Gibraltar before sailing for exercises (Cougar 2015)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

Post by marktigger »

what size is the dock on the Albion class

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shark bait
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

Massive! Enough for 4 LCU
A huge capacity that we can't afford to loose, which would explain the mothballing and not sale of the LPD

Image

The Albion's above has 2 lanes side by side, only one is clearly visible in that picture. 2 lanes, each can take 2 LCU, one in front of the other.

The bay class below is comparatively tiny, but it is just an auxiliary amphibious platform, only supporting 1 LCU

Image
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

Post by marktigger »

so about the same size as the well dock on HMAS Canberra

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shark bait
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

I seem to remembercHMAS Canberra's being a little bigger, wich is to be expected for a ship that is 50m longer.

Actual size is more like;
  • Canberra = 1164m2
  • Albion ~ 1000m2
  • Mistral ~ 800m2
  • Bay ~ 230m2
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

Post by marktigger »

ok so 1164m2 well dock

ability to carry and support 18 helicopters but planned air group of 6 merlin and 6 Wildcat with either 6 apache or 3 Chinook making up the balance sound reasonable?

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something like this now given its likely to be a while before anything is ordered it would be a good starting point for an outline design.

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shark bait
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

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I think the Canberra's would be the best stating point for a design, but I fully expect we would go native with the design.

The only way we are going to get and ocean replacement is by mixing it in with another type, no resources for an additional capitol ship.

If we are looking at replacing the Albion's and ocean's with a single class, it is going to need to be a big ship to fit in all that capacity, and I think the Spanish and Australian's have shown its possible. I guess we will have to watch closely and see how it really performs in the real world.

It seems like we're discussing this very early, however it took the Australian's 15 years to go from back of the beer mat to a commissioned ship, so planning will have to start soon. I hope it is kicked off in the 2020 SDSR, in which case we can expect and entry into service in 2035, which will be about the correct time to retire Albion
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

Post by marktigger »

except we take the work the Aussies and Spannish and build in UK like we did with the bays. I'd say slightly bigger than the Canberra. It would take allot of the risk out of the program and BaE were the contractor in Australia.

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shark bait
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

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I don't know, by the time out future amphibious platform comes into service the Canberra design will have been around for 30 years. That seems a bit too old.
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

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Thoughts on building a third such ship and having one in extended readiness, with a skeleton maintainance crew? My thought was that they'd rotate and have the "mothballed" ship undergo repair/refit while the others are operational.

Saves a lot on the real cost of the class (operating costs for 3 hulls), increases the availability of the other two hulls and gives you a very impressive emergency surge capacity. As we've seen with the QEs hull 2 onwards is where you start to see real savings and efficiencies happen as well.
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

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Talisman sabre 2017 is the one to watch,
ADF will test the ARG with 2x Canberra LHD and 1x Bay LPD plus all the other enablers and support

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

Post by R686 »

shark bait wrote:I don't know, by the time out future amphibious platform comes into service the Canberra design will have been around for 30 years. That seems a bit too old.
Don't forget that the basic design for the America class start in the 1960's with the Tarawa class, evolution mate evolution, take it to the next level

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

^ That does sound like the one to watch, with the bays too it becomes a particularly nice case study for the future Royal Navy.

You are right about evolving the design, we could certainly modify a Canberra into a two island design :D
Thoughts on building a third such ship and having one in extended readiness
Initial thoughts is that sounds expensive and largely goes against the way most units are crewed, seems like it would cause some friction. I could also think of much better uses than building ships to sit empty, I could complete my fantasy fleet with 4 SSK's :lol: :lol:

There does appear to be great gains in efficiency on the QEC builds, I would like to see it quantified. It makes it a shame we're not building more.
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

Post by marktigger »

given the timelines the Dutch and spannish will be looking at rotterdam/galacia replacement as well and a Joint program might be cost effective depending on their requirements.

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

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Life on board a warship in our much-reduced Royal Navy
The Royal Navy is known as the Senior Service because of its illustrious history; Francis Drake and all that. But the days when it ruled the waves have long gone. In 1945 it had almost 900 warships and a million men. By the time of the Falklands War it was down to 70 warships and 70,000 men. Now it is less than half that, with more admirals than there are fighting ships.

The arrival this year of HMS Queen Elizabeth, the much-heralded new aircraft carrier that has cost £6 billion (for 50-odd years of life), will draw unwelcome attention to the Navy’s significant manpower shortages. As one senior officer put it, the carrier will bring ‘new challenges, relearning old tricks perhaps, and some new — not least how to man it’. They put a brave face on things, as you would expect. But what is morale really like in the Royal Navy?

To find out, I joined HMS Bulwark on manoeuvres in the Mediterranean for a few days. I was given unprecedented access — I went up in a £100 million submarine-hunting Merlin helicopter, and out at night with Royal Marine commandos in one of the ship’s four giant assault landing craft. Most edifying of all, I got the chance to talk candidly with everyone from the stokers in the engine room to a visiting commodore over dinner in the captain’s cabin. I also found myself taking part in a ‘man overboard’ drill.
Read more: http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/life ... oyal-navy/

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

Post by Tony Williams »

shark bait wrote:I think the Canberra's would be the best stating point for a design, but I fully expect we would go native with the design.
Yep, chuck out those old US gas turbines and fit a really advanced new British engine instead :o on the other hand..... :?

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

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Tony Williams wrote:Yep, chuck out those old US gas turbines and fit a really advanced new British engine instead :o on the other hand..... :?
Maybe bolt a few extra DGs on, just in case... ;)
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

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Tony Williams wrote:Yep, chuck out those old US gas turbines and fit a really advanced new British engine instead on the other hand.....
Like the MT30 that the Americans choose over GE engines
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ship (LPD) (RN)

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Deleted by Old RN!

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

may be one of the Royal Navy's key assets but HMS Albion has been mothballed since 2011.

The engineering company, Babcock, has been given the mammoth task of bringing the amphibious assault ship back to life, ready to return to sea next year.

The Government mothballed Albion just eight years after she joined the fleet at a cost of £359 million.

The plan is that she and her sistership HMS Bulwark will take it in turns alternating between extended readiness and high readiness.

The refit began in October 2014 and at any one time, 250 Babcock engineers can be working on board.[/quote]

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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"Phalanx fore and aft", first semi-official confirmation in the video that she will get the Phalanx to replace Goalkeeper.

So, when HMS Bulwark goes into mothball, Goalkeeper will be truly out of Royal Navy service (a bit later than originally intended).
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by GibMariner »

HMS Bulwark back at sea:

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