Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by Poiuytrewq »

shark bait wrote:Where have you got that image from, the fex deck on an Absalon is not big enough to fit a Merlin.
It's just a concept and one worth exploring in my view. The support Frigate design offers lots of capabilites but what does RN need more, Support Frigates or ASW Frigates? Clearly not Patrol Frigates.

The ideal solution for the T31 would be a single class of vessel with both ASW and Support variants sharing maximum commonality between variants, maybe even an AAW variant for export.

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Repulse wrote:At best we are talking Brigade level ops, but more likely RM Cdo/Army battlegroup level expeditionary ops.
I think you are confusing "max effort" and what can be sent quickly, should an unexpected situation arise?
- then you can add further assumptions: when would a "sovereign" or stand-alone effort apply and how inputs to a coalition might work differently [END OF SECOND QUOTE]


I can neither deny or verify that Mr. Sedwill is saying the same as in the above (thanks to the Telegraph paywall):
"Sir Mark Sedwill said he believed the carriers would “inevitably” only be deployed in a “contested environment” with the support of allied ships and aircraft."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

Sir Mark does seem to suggest that the UK will only use the carriers in contested waters with allies. Whilst allies are very much desirable, the UK does need the sovereign capability to project power, admittedly on a limited basis, but to assume this is not needed is criminal. However, I’d bet my mortgage that is the shit hit the fan, there would be a cobbled together RN task group sailing soon enough, but again it will cost lives.

Interesting also in the article: “He told the Defence Select Committee: “We will be one of only about I think six countries in the world that has this kind of strategic projection capability when the carriers are fully operational.” I count only two currently that will be able to do this on a global basis 100% of the time.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Repulse wrote:this kind of strategic projection capability when the carriers are fully operational.” I count only two currently that will be able to do this on a global basis 100% of the time.
I take it that the quote ends, and then you add? Which I agree with. Add the ones that can do it regionally and with
- China
- France
- Australia
- Russia
you still only get the mentioned 6
, with the aspirants to that status being:
Italy, Korea, Brazil, the Netherlands, Spain and (truly still aspiring) Turkey
- with the high numbers in their marine corps Brazil and Korea only just make it into the category, not fielding a rounded package
- whereas Russian marines, being a coastal flanking force for their ground forces much in the same way as Korea's, can be backed in any more far reaching deployment by a rounded package of other assets... whether that extends much to the East of the Urals could be debated in the light of how Afghanistan turned out to be their "max" effort. "Funny" how everyone seems to send Marines to the landlocked Afghanistan?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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US
Russia
China
France
India
UK

Six.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Ron5 wrote:India
:D
Repulse wrote:“We will be one of only about I think six countries in the world that has this kind of strategic projection capability when the carriers are fully operational.”
Are we counting carriers or talking about capability for strategic projection?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by Ron5 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Ron5 wrote:India
:D
Repulse wrote:“We will be one of only about I think six countries in the world that has this kind of strategic projection capability when the carriers are fully operational.”
Are we counting carriers or talking about capability for strategic projection?
I think Sedwill is a prize clot that can only count (carriers). How on earth a lifetime civil servant can become UK security advisor and then be put in charge of cutting defense spending, beats the heck out of me. WTF does he know?

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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Ron5 wrote:How on earth a lifetime civil servant can become UK security advisor
Been wondering, too. The advertisement for the vacancy must have passed unnoticed...
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by Ron5 »

Seems he was chums with Theresa at the Home Office.

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Ookay, so the Homeland Dept (even if we don'y have one) and HM Armed Forces are getting mixed up?
- at least at the budgetary levl
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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He's even suggested publicly that the military should be used to fight crime. Not even in the fun way like the Philippines.

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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Out of the box -thinking ;)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by Caribbean »

An interesting "compare and contrast". Different ideas of how relevant experience is gained, I guess
(Sir MArk) Sedwill joined the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) in 1989 and he served in the Security Coordination Department and the Gulf War Emergency Unit until 1991.

He was then posted in Cairo, Egypt, from 1991 to 1994 as a Second Secretary, then First Secretary in Iraq from 1996 to 1997 whilst serving as a United Nations weapons inspector, then in Nicosia, Cyprus, as First Secretary for Political-Military Affairs and Counterterrorism from 1997 to 1999. He was the Private Secretary to the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Robin Cook and Jack Straw) from 2000 to 2002 in the runup to and preparations for the 2003 Iraq invasion.[2]

He then served as the Deputy High Commissioner to Pakistan, based in Islamabad from 2003 to 2005, then the Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa Department of the Foreign Office. From 2006 to 2008, he served as International Director of the UK Border Agency.[2][5]

Afghanistan ambassador and NATO roles
In April 2009, Sedwill became the Ambassador to Afghanistan, succeeding Sir Sherard Cowper-Coles. In January 2010, he was additionally appointed as NATO's Senior Civilian Representative in Afghanistan,[6][7] to be the civilian counterpart to the ISAF Commander, U.S. General Stanley A. McChrystal and then U.S. General David H. Petraeus. He was succeeded as ambassador temporarily by his predecessor, Sir Sherard Cowper-Coles, and then by Sir William Patey, formerly British Ambassador to Saudi Arabia.[2]

In May 2011, Sedwill took over as the FCO's Director-General for Afghanistan and Pakistan (and thus as the UK's Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan) from Karen Pierce CMG. He additionally became the FCO's Director-General, Political in Autumn 2012, replacing Sir Geoffrey Adams.

Home Office
On 9 January 2013, it was announced that Sedwill was to become the next Permanent Secretary at the Home Office filling the vacancy left by Dame Helen Ghosh from 1 February 2013.[3] As of 2015, Sedwill was paid a salary of between £180,000 and £184,999, making him one of the 328 most highly paid people in the British public sector at that time.[8]

National Security Adviser
On 27 February 2017, it was announced that Sedwill is to replace Sir Mark Lyall Grant as National Security Adviser in the Cabinet Office from April.
John Robert Bolton (born November 20, 1948) is an American diplomat and attorney who serves as the National Security Advisor of the United States. He began his tenure as National Security Advisor on April 9, 2018.[6] Bolton served as the United States Ambassador to the United Nations from August 2005 to December 2006 as a recess appointee by President George W. Bush.[7] He resigned at the end of his recess appointment in December 2006[8][9] because he was unlikely to win confirmation from then newly-elected Democratic-party-majority Senate.[10][11]

Bolton is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI),[12] senior advisor for Freedom Capital Investment Management,[13] a Fox News Channel commentator, and of counsel to the Washington, D.C. law firm Kirkland & Ellis.[14] He was a foreign policy adviser to 2012 presidential candidate Mitt Romney.[15] Bolton is also involved with a number of politically conservative think tanks, policy institutes and special interest groups, including the Institute of East-West Dynamics, the National Rifle Association, the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, Project for the New American Century, Jewish Institute for National Security of America (JINSA), Committee for Peace and Security in the Gulf, the Council for National Policy, and the Gatestone Institute,[16] where he served as the organization Chairman until March 2018.[17]
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by indeid »

Ron5 wrote:He's even suggested publicly that the military should be used to fight crime. Not even in the fun way like the Philippines.
I've burnt dead cattle and put out fires while in uniform, sounds like an improvement.

I don't see the issue with the CV of Sir Mark as NSA?

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by Caribbean »

indeid wrote:I don't see the issue with the CV of Sir Mark as NSA?
Quite so. Seems rather appropriate. Security is about more than use of force.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by Ron5 »

The idea that the US NSA would be put in charge of making defense cuts is most amusing.

I'm sure the UK will be happy with the results of their choice. A career civil servant with no educational or work experience relevant to UK defense making decisions on the size of the UK fleet, army & air force. Sounds a winner.

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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Sasebo, Nagasaki Prefecture, Japan.

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by Aethulwulf »

Wayne David

I thank the Minister for his generosity. He talks about cuts, but I would argue that the position is not quite as he painted. Can I infer from what he has said that HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark are now safe?

Guto Bebb

The hon. Gentleman should be aware that HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark are safe until 2033 and 2034, which is the current situation. Those are the decommissioning dates for both vessels.
This is from the Type 26 Frigates: Base-Porting debate on 6 June 2018

https://goo.gl/nQNVsk

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

So now Guto Bebb is also on record as saying HMG is planning on spending 63 billion pounds on the RN over the next 10 years

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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Tempest414 wrote:HMG is planning on spending 63 billion pounds on the RN over the next 10 years
A good part of it would be towards building the 4 "boats"? The RN is the custodian, but having the net figure (available towards operational needs) would be informative. We could go by ukdefencejournal's figures (but would still need to chop the total in two, as the first boat is only due to enter service at the end of the current 10-yr EP:
"It’s expected that just the submarines and their infrastructure will cost an immediate £15 billion to build. This can be broken down as such:

£0.25 billion to participate in the Trident D5 missile life extension programme.
£11 billion for a class of four new submarines.
£2 billion for possible refurbishing of the warheads.
£2–3 billion for infrastructure."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

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Image
Image
Image

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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by Gabriele »

The hon. Gentleman should be aware that HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark are safe until 2033 and 2034, which is the current situation.
Key part of the phrase, that makes it completely worthless.
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Re: Albion Class Amphibious Assault Ships (LPD) (RN)

Post by Aethulwulf »

Gabriele wrote:
The hon. Gentleman should be aware that HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark are safe until 2033 and 2034, which is the current situation.
Key part of the phrase, that makes it completely worthless.
I don't think it is completely worthless.

If there was still a high chance of loosing Albion and Bulwark in MDP, I doubt he would have said they were safe - he would have been much more vague, saying nothing had been decided yet and not used a word like safe which could come back to haunt him.

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