Foxhound Protected Vehicle

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Ron5
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by Ron5 »

RunningStrong wrote:And given MOD history (repeating itself), why any company would invest in a new platform (Foxhound 6x6) when there's an OTS option already (Eagle), is beyond me.
Explains why GD UK bought the company that made Foxhound and has since strangled it.

Before anyone gets too defensive, Bae Hagglunds did the same thing in the past. Inheriting Warrior (which had been developed to an excellent standard in Warrior 2000 performing very well in a Swiss army competition) but competing head on with their existing CV90 product, Warrior was sent to the trash heap.

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RunningStrong
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by RunningStrong »

Ron5 wrote:
RunningStrong wrote:And given MOD history (repeating itself), why any company would invest in a new platform (Foxhound 6x6) when there's an OTS option already (Eagle), is beyond me.
Explains why GD UK bought the company that made Foxhound and has since strangled it.

Before anyone gets too defensive, Bae Hagglunds did the same thing in the past. Inheriting Warrior (which had been developed to an excellent standard in Warrior 2000 performing very well in a Swiss army competition) but competing head on with their existing CV90 product, Warrior was sent to the trash heap.
I'm not sure why you would say GD strangled FPE when they funded the utility vehicle, WMIK, and C2 variants in 2014 and 2016 at DVD.

How much more should they spend before MoD write a requirement or put their hand in their pockets?

Ron5
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by Ron5 »

GD didn't enter the Foxhound into the MRV(P) program. Eagle was entered instead.

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RunningStrong
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by RunningStrong »

Ron5 wrote:GD didn't enter the Foxhound into the MRV(P) program. Eagle was entered instead.
Well that goes back to MoD wanting a cheaper platform. Foxhound is many things, but it's not cheap.

Ron5
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

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RunningStrong wrote:
Ron5 wrote:GD didn't enter the Foxhound into the MRV(P) program. Eagle was entered instead.
Well that goes back to MoD wanting a cheaper platform. Foxhound is many things, but it's not cheap.
Pulease. Eagle is cheap?? Like GD is the king of cheap. Over 3 billion on Ajax and about 20 delivered that don't work. Eagle built in the UK would be well over a mill a pop by the time they're delivered.

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RunningStrong
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by RunningStrong »

Ron5 wrote:
RunningStrong wrote:
Ron5 wrote:GD didn't enter the Foxhound into the MRV(P) program. Eagle was entered instead.
Well that goes back to MoD wanting a cheaper platform. Foxhound is many things, but it's not cheap.
Pulease. Eagle is cheap?? Like GD is the king of cheap. Over 3 billion on Ajax and about 20 delivered that don't work. Eagle built in the UK would be well over a mill a pop by the time they're delivered.
Lol. You're looking like a prat, again.

Lord Jim
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by Lord Jim »

If we purchase the JLTV direct from the US under FMS it is likely to be the cheapest option out of the platforms under consideration. I do think we need to broaden out search though, as many countries are now producing platforms of a type that would meet the MRV(P) phases one and two, South Africa for example.

P.S. Will you two please shake hands and make up, it denigrates the forum when people act like this.

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RunningStrong
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by RunningStrong »

Lord Jim wrote:If we purchase the JLTV direct from the US under FMS it is likely to be the cheapest option out of the platforms under consideration. I do think we need to broaden out search though, as many countries are now producing platforms of a type that would meet the MRV(P) phases one and two, South Africa for example.
I agree, I don't believe JLTV is the vehicle we need, and I don't believe Oshkosh will have sufficient incentive to make the British-standard of changes that are required for our use (Bowman just to start).

Perhaps with the latest security pact we will be looking towards the Bushmaster, to keep both Australia and Thales happy.

Ron5
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by Ron5 »

RunningStrong wrote:
Lord Jim wrote:If we purchase the JLTV direct from the US under FMS it is likely to be the cheapest option out of the platforms under consideration. I do think we need to broaden out search though, as many countries are now producing platforms of a type that would meet the MRV(P) phases one and two, South Africa for example.
I agree, I don't believe JLTV is the vehicle we need, and I don't believe Oshkosh will have sufficient incentive to make the British-standard of changes that are required for our use (Bowman just to start).

Perhaps with the latest security pact we will be looking towards the Bushmaster, to keep both Australia and Thales happy.
1. JLTV is half the price of any of its competitors. That's why it was selected by the UK. Fitting UK comms is not an issue.

2. Bushmaster is not competing against JLTV. It's an entry in part 2 of the requirement,. JLTV has already won part 1.

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RunningStrong
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by RunningStrong »

Ron5 wrote: 1. JLTV is half the price of any of its competitors. That's why it was selected by the UK. Fitting UK comms is not an issue.
You're really top notch on your pricing knowledge, care to share your definitive sources? As far as I'm aware, UK doesn't have an export price for JLTV at the kit level we require to satisfy MRVP Pt. 1.
Ron5 wrote: 2. Bushmaster is not competing against JLTV. It's an entry in part 2 of the requirement,. JLTV has already won part 1.
Thank you Captain Obvious, but as we're all aware no contract has yet been awarded on JLTV.

Your definition of "already won" seems to contradict the most recent comments from British Army Head of Strategy.

https://www.army-technology.com/news/mrv-p-review/

BB85
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by BB85 »

I have a feeling the UK will pull an Australia and back out of JLTV. I wonder if the US will withdraw their ambassador :lol:
I thought the whole point was to order them straight off the US production line and paint them green to get the US economies of scale.
Is the hold up now because the UK doesn't have the money or wants to get as much life out of the UOR MRAPs before they need a serious over hall.

Lord Jim
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by Lord Jim »

Why the MRV(P) programme and especially phase 1 has not progressed is one of life's great mysteries. It should really be in service with the Army already given that we were going to buy it via FMS, with the fitting of most UK kit being done here in workshops or so I believe.

I thought we had basically decided on how many vehicles initially and how many armour packages we wanted. we were initially going to use our existing RWS pool to equip some vehicles and then decide later what additional capabilities we wanted. All that was needed was a signature.

But it has all gone very quiet and no mention of it in recent announcement by the MoD or Government and I have not seen any publicity from DSEI 2021 which I would have thought would be the perfect time and place to announce the actual order.

Ron5
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by Ron5 »

Just a question of money. The uncertainty over Ajax and how much it will cost to fix that fiasco doesn't help.

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Tempest414
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Re: Foxhound Protected Vehicle

Post by Tempest414 »

with a quick look around JLTV is around $470,000 and Bushmaster is $500,000 base price

Again a quick look around we are looking at buying about 850 vehicles in phase 1 of group 1 and say 400 in group 2 so for me I would just buy 1500 Bushmaster's one supplier one logistics and training effort and use them to equip 2 light BCT's the RAF regiment and Ranger units

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