UK Defence Forum

So, old Sea Kings are being deployed on HMS Ocean in AEW role.





https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/15695

What's the status of Crowsnest project? When will they become operational?

Manufacture contract is going to be signed this year, sea kings finally go out of service in September 2018, so they're going to have to get a serious move on if the transition is going to be seamless.

shark bait wrote:Manufacture contract is going to be signed this year

Fallon was talking about spring; I would be hard pressed to think of any other meaningful milestone exc. the one above

But it is still a mystery why the winner was asked to rebid

ArmChairCivvy wrote:But it is still a mystery why the winner was asked to rebid

Money?

well, money downed this bird (could be termed an Ugly Duckling, but the predecessor Fairey Gannett wins in that series hands down):
https://wilkybarkid.wordpress.com/2015/ ... -what-ifs/
What has it got to do with Crowsnest?

If I remember correctly, the two side AESAs won over the "baggers" type of approach reapplied?

The two AESAs combined to one radar picture beat the Hawkeye in coverage (if not in range)
... so would the HS139b have as the dark areas are two different radars, for the pictures produced then to be combined by processing means

Only the very latest fighters have additional, side looking AESAs - have not spotted any with a back view, despite the 360 being a hot topic?

So, if I get this thing right, result of Crowsnest will be radar similar to current radar on Sea Kings but put on Merlins? Like this:

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2015/05/r ... owsnest-2/

There was also a proposal for an AEW Dominie. Range was dreadful though.

Yes the Crowsnest solution will be a bagged radar. It is designed to be modular so will allegedly use the workstations onboard Merlin HM2.

Timmymagic wrote:There was also a proposal for an AEW Dominie. Range was dreadful though.

Yes the Crowsnest solution will be a bagged radar. It is designed to be modular so will allegedly use the workstations onboard Merlin HM2.

Been thru this before. Brand new workstations.

Timmymagic wrote:Yes the Crowsnest solution will be a bagged radar

Sorry about mis-recall about who won. So the field of regard may actually have been a factor (in winning)?

Why oh why are they going to rip out the work stations on upgraded HM2s when we have unmodified HM1s in storage still, unless these have been Christmas treed for spares. Typical MoD logic at play egged on by the Treasury probably.

have you seen the pictures of the HM1's in storage?

BTW at least with some in storage if one is written off they can generate a replacement

marktigger wrote: BTW at least with some in storage if one is written off they can generate a replacement

Finally a rationale that sticks - 8 is a big number, though?

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Finally a rationale that sticks - 8 is a big number, though?

what is the expected OSD for Merlin ? since it's going to be around for a while then 8 might not be so big

but take a look

http://www.demobbed.org.uk/aircraft.php?type=725

Lord Jim wrote:Why oh why are they going to rip out the work stations on upgraded HM2s when we have unmodified HM1s in storage still, unless these have been Christmas treed for spares. Typical MoD logic at play egged on by the Treasury probably.

1. Not rip out. Slide out. Both workstations can be swapped in and out as required.

2. A workstation for ASW is not the same a a workstation for AA controllers. It's different work. Think about it.

Ron5 wrote:Not rip out. Slide out.

The airframe is not big enough to do the roll-in/ roll-out (of complete modules, not just workstations) as in the Dragon suite by LM for , basically, transport aircraft

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Sorry about mis-recall about who won. So the field of regard may actually have been a factor (in winning)?

Not sure about that. Certainly in the past combining 2 radar pictures together was problematic (particularly from 2 radars, rather than 2 aerials). But manufacturers seem to be more confident now. The Vigilance pods looked like a great idea, same radar as F-35 so cutting edge, electronic attack a possibility and possible use on other platforms plus less drag. The main reason I suspect was that Searchwater is a known system, its a cracking radar in itself and seems like a relatively simple programme. No complaints from me in that regard, I liked the look of Vigilance but can't fault the logic behind the procurement. The re-bid thing is worrying though...

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

Ron5 wrote:Not rip out. Slide out.

The airframe is not big enough to do the roll-in/ roll-out (of complete modules, not just workstations) as in the Dragon suite by LM for , basically, transport aircraft

Team estimated 2 hours to reconfigure.

Timmymagic wrote:same radar as F-35 so cutting edge

sensor fusion... even if it is "only" two radars

Ron5 wrote:Team estimated 2 hours to reconfigure.

pretty good.of course you will need to onboard the specialists as you sail (or fly them in later, if the threat picture changes from what initially was assessed)

Not really sure why they would ever reconfigure at sea unless one of the Merlins went seriously U/S.

Maybe that's all it is: insurance against attrition.

Ron5 wrote:insurance against attrition.

That, and the capital expenditure upfront, maintaining two fleets that are so close to identical. You can imagine an "overload" situation at the TF level, so multiroleing the helos carried, according to the changing threat picture, is not to be sniffed at.

i do wonder looking at the state of the "reserve" fleet if any of them will fly again

marktigger wrote:, 19:16
i do wonder looking at the state of the "reserve" fleet if any of them will fly again

I think the number (8, vs 10 kits ordered) says it all: they were kept as an insurance against the ro/ro solution actually not happening... and I think by now it has been proved feasible.

But the numbers are so tight that any write-offs, for any reason, would have to be replaced. Hence, having airframes is a good start, rather than ordering a new build (esp. if the line closes at some point).

Deal just announced

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/crow ... ed-uk-jobs

had heard at BBC SW there was investment comming at yeovil wasn't sure what