Royal Artillery/Royal Horse Artillery future developments

[sunstersun]

The answer is the Boxer.

Most of the artillery game is not being spotted. If you're spotted by a drone, the difference in armor isn't that useful. Add on a fortune in logistical savings and it's a pretty good deal.

Spotted by a drone armed with what?

Artillery fire or a kamikaze drone. The biggest revolution in Putin's war is drone spotting for artillery.

[Caribbean]

Spotted by a drone armed with what

A datalink to an enemy GMLRS battery?

[RunningStrong]

The answer is the Boxer.

Most of the artillery game is not being spotted. If you're spotted by a drone, the difference in armor isn't that useful. Add on a fortune in logistical savings and it's a pretty good deal.

Spotted by a drone armed with what?

Artillery fire or a kamikaze drone. The biggest revolution in Putin's war is drone spotting for artillery.

So why isn't armour helpful against counter-battery fire and small warheads? Isn't that entirely why we've had armoured SPG for nearly 30 years?

[TheLoneRanger]

K9 makes the most sense - given how many Poland will be buying - we need more commonality - I do think the Army is right on this one.

[Jake1992]

K9 makes the most sense - given how many Poland will be buying - we need more commonality - I do think the Army is right on this one.

K9 would offer commonality with some allies, I say some as who else is planing on buying it ? RCH 155 will offer commonality with in our own vehicle fleet.

RCH 155 could see the death nail of Ajax as well IMO as a push for tracked Boxer being brought in for it.

[RunningStrong]

RCH 155 could see the death nail of Ajax as well IMO as a push for tracked Boxer being brought in for it.

RCH155 on tracked Boxer is a gamble, and 5 years away minimum. MFP is planned to see service in 2027.

[SW1]

If they are going dwn the root of 120mm mortars for the close support role does that not make the requirement for 155mm rather moot as it main role will then be “deep” battle so in stead of replacing it should the artillery not focus on mlrs (tracked/wheeled) for that mission not 155mm guns.

[sol]

RCH 155 could see the death nail of Ajax as well IMO as a push for tracked Boxer being brought in for it.

No chance. Ajax will be adopted into the British Army, and its fate would definitely not be impacted by Boxer RCH 155. Also tracked Boxer is still far from being completely developed and tested on its own, and even further from being tested with 155mm gun on it.

If they are going dwn the root of 120mm mortars for the close support role does that not make the requirement for 155mm rather moot as it main role will then be “deep” battle so in stead of replacing it should the artillery not focus on mlrs (tracked/wheeled) for that mission not 155mm guns.

120mm is replacing 81mm mortars in the mechanised and, potentially, light infantry battalion equipped with light protected vehicles. Units in 16AABCT should keep 81mm mortars tho. 120mm mortar can not replace 155mm just like MLRS can not do it either. 120mm mortar simply don't have a range or weight like 155mm gun. Even 105mm gun has more range and heavier shells than 120mm mortar. Just like 155mm shells are much cheaper than MLRS missiles and have greater RoF. If war in the Ukraine shown something is that heavy artillery is still very important component and UK needs both 155mm guns and MLRS in their arsenal.

[RunningStrong]

If they are going dwn the root of 120mm mortars for the close support role does that not make the requirement for 155mm rather moot as it main role will then be “deep” battle so in stead of replacing it should the artillery not focus on mlrs (tracked/wheeled) for that mission not 155mm guns.

Err no.

120mm mortar range is crica 10km.

155mm artillery range is currently 25km in the obsolete AS90 gun system. Newer systems are nearer 40km with standard rounds and beyond 60km with assisted rounds.

[SW1]

If they are going dwn the root of 120mm mortars for the close support role does that not make the requirement for 155mm rather moot as it main role will then be “deep” battle so in stead of replacing it should the artillery not focus on mlrs (tracked/wheeled) for that mission not 155mm guns.

Err no.

120mm mortar range is crica 10km.

155mm artillery range is currently 25km in the obsolete AS90 gun system. Newer systems are nearer 40km with standard rounds and beyond 60km with assisted rounds.

So 120mm won’t be capable of providing the close support previously provided by old as90 it would after all be closer to the front than the old artillery?

are preferring 155mm over mlrs for the deep battle then?

If 120mm mortar are ordered and more mlrs are wanted the 155mm is going to be really squeezed imo as those longer ranged 155mm are both very expensive and have reduced explosives.

[RunningStrong]

So 120mm won’t be capable of providing the close support previously provided by old as90 it would after all be closer to the front than the old artillery?

AS90 never provided close support. It was always a long range artillery piece, but in 30 years the capability of artillery has changed.

are preferring 155mm over mlrs for the deep battle then?

No because they do entirely different things and upgraded GMLRS has greater range again.

If 120mm mortar are ordered and more mlrs are wanted the 155mm is going to be really squeezed imo as those longer ranged 155mm are both very expensive and have reduced explosives.

How do the 155 have reduced explosives?

[Tempest414]

For me we need to be thinking in terms of Mech Infantry battalion weapons and Artillery weapons

Infantry should be NLAW , Javelin , SP 120mm mortar and Brimstone Overwatch allowing for 1km to 40km range

Artillery should be 155mm and MRLS allowing 40km to 500km range

this could allow the retirement of the 105mm gun and those regiments to transfer to a HIMARS option in tern allowing a re-enforced mechanised battalion battle group to deploy with

NLAW , Javelin , SP 120mm mortar , Brimstone and HIMARS

[Tempest414]

If they are going dwn the root of 120mm mortars for the close support role does that not make the requirement for 155mm rather moot as it main role will then be “deep” battle so in stead of replacing it should the artillery not focus on mlrs (tracked/wheeled) for that mission not 155mm guns.

Err no.

120mm mortar range is crica 10km.

155mm artillery range is currently 25km in the obsolete AS90 gun system. Newer systems are nearer 40km with standard rounds and beyond 60km with assisted rounds.

So 120mm won’t be capable of providing the close support previously provided by old as90 it would after all be closer to the front than the old artillery?


are preferring 155mm over mlrs for the deep battle then?

If 120mm mortar are ordered and more mlrs are wanted the 155mm is going to be really squeezed imo as those longer ranged 155mm are both very expensive and have reduced explosives.

As we know the British ROWANEX 105mm HE round has the same explosive power as a standard 155mm M107 round so if we wanted we could make some ROWANEX 155mm rounds with the power of a 205mm round

[RunningStrong]

As we know the British ROWANEX 105mm HE round has the same explosive power as a standard 155mm M107 round so if we wanted we could make some ROWANEX 155mm rounds with the power of a 205mm round

Does anyone think the HE content is something that needs improving?

Does increased HR performance balance with the same amount of splintering as the round is physically the same? Would a lower weight, equally explosive performing round offer any advantages?

[Tempest414]

As we know the British ROWANEX 105mm HE round has the same explosive power as a standard 155mm M107 round so if we wanted we could make some ROWANEX 155mm rounds with the power of a 205mm round

Does anyone think the HE content is something that needs improving?

Does increased HR performance balance with the same amount of splintering as the round is physically the same? Would a lower weight, equally explosive performing round offer any advantages?

Clearly someone did as they come up with and use the ROWANEX 105mm HE round but what that means on the battle field I don't know I am not a Artillery man

[Ron5]

Isn't the problem with 105mm that if you put in all the precision guidance with GPS/IR etc, there's not much room left for the bang. And it will still be out ranged by 155mm.

And any SPG versions wouldn't be significantly cheaper and still too heavy for helo's.

[RunningStrong]

Isn't the problem with 105mm that if you put in all the precision guidance with GPS/IR etc, there's not much room left for the bang. And it will still be out ranged by 155mm.

And any SPG versions wouldn't be significantly cheaper and still too heavy for helo's.

105mm at the ranges it's used at only needs a course correction fuze for sufficient accuracy. It doesn't have the payload for a anti-armour capability anyway, so precision guidance is unnecessary.

[Timmymagic]

Isn't the problem with 105mm that if you put in all the precision guidance with GPS/IR etc, there's not much room left for the bang. And it will still be out ranged by 155mm.

And any SPG versions wouldn't be significantly cheaper and still too heavy for helo's.

Remember the accuracy of 105 at 20km range is going to be a lot better than 155mm at 40km. But also it depends what sort of guidance you use. If you use a full up dedicated round like Excalibur for 105mm (or Vulcano) the payload will be significantly reduced. But somethng like PGK won't have the same effect, PGK won't have to do the same amount of correction at 20km range so will have a significantly better CEP as well, probably good enough to negate the need for a more complex guided round.