UK Defence Forum

How sticks may hurt us…

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/11/ ... se-summit/

Britain and France will hold a summit in the first quarter of 2023 aimed at reinforcing their military and defense cooperation, French President Emmanuel Macron announced Wednesday.

Macron unveiled the summit while laying out his strategic defense priorities for France and Europe in the coming years, not least in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and a growing international assertiveness of China.

“Our partnership with the United Kingdom must also be raised to another level,” Macron said onboard a helicopter carrier at the Mediterranean naval base at Toulon.

“I hope that we will actively resume our dialogue on operations, capacities, nuclear and hybrid areas and renew the ambitions of our two countries as friends and allies,” Macron said.

France is banking on a reset with Britain under its new Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, following years of tense relations under Boris Johnson and later Liz Truss.

Feels about right, it’s about every 10 years we give it a go. It’ll probably be used like last time as a cover for cuts as everything we will do will be with partners blah blah blah. I just hope we don’t get sucked into any joint major procurement programmes…

Are there likely to be planning changes for budget acquisitions in defence equipment because of Russia's military equipment losses?
Although the U.K the U.S and other N.A.T.O countries have provided much aid to Ukraine ,this equipment is far easier for N.A.T.O to replace than Russia to replace its own losses from such N.A.T.O supplies, for instance previously there was commentary of the reduction of tank forces by the U.K, at the moment Russia is believed to have lost half of theirs so far , and significant numbers of losses of military equipment ,
This war in Ukraine is likely to weaken the Russian army in material equipment to unprecedented low levels

If accurate why 3% being spent on defence won’t be happening anytime soon, no one is interested

SW1 wrote: ↑11 Nov 2022, 13:57 If accurate why 3% being spent on defence won’t be happening anytime soon, no one is interested

I agree but it only matters when it is to late a bit like the NHS people claim to care but they don't really until they need it then they jump up and down asking why HMG let it get so bad

For me the 2% 3% is not what matters what should be done is the MOD puts a case forward for say 1000 Bushmasters or 5 type 31's HMT stamps it or defers it or says no

I could not find a general RAF news thread. Please move if appropriate.

RAF Evolution: A Thread on Global Enablement
First of 10 - click on thread to see rest of 9 posts in thread:

wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑27 Nov 2022, 19:32 I could not find a general RAF news thread. Please move if appropriate.

RAF Evolution: A Thread on Global Enablement
First of 10 - click on thread to see rest of 9 posts in thread:

The annual round of the sums don’t add up

https://www.nao.org.uk/reports/the-equi ... paign=Orlo

The Department has assessed that the Plan is affordable over the period 2022–2032. This is based on financial data from March 2022 and reflects ongoing improvements to its affordability assessment. However, its assessment continues to be based on optimistic assumptions that it will achieve all planned savings. It will also take some important decisions that affect the Plan’s costs in the next financial planning round. While the Plan continues to serve a useful purpose in reporting to Parliament on planned expenditure, the volatile external environment means this year’s Plan is already out of date.

The Department faces significant and growing cost pressures which will have an immediate impact on its spending plans. The Department believes it can manage these pressures but has left itself limited flexibility to absorb any cost increases on equipment projects, or across other budgets. It needs to address the financial challenges promptly to avoid falling back into old habits of short-term cost management, which do not support longer-term value for money. The cost pressures are also likely to undermine the pace at which it can modernise the Armed Forces. The Department will need to make difficult prioritisation decisions to live within its means and retain enough flexibility in its Plan to respond promptly to changing threats.

So something, fairly big, will get cut in the next 2-3 years

Well as there will be a new government in that time frame and as such a new review so a sacrifice to allowing plugging of the ubiquitous black hole will surely follow.

(Forces News) 2nd December 2022

The National Audit Office report says inflation and the global energy crisis are likely to add billions of pounds to the final bill, meaning flagship projects like the Royal Navy's Future Commando Force could face funding gaps.

Good summary by Sir H:

https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/?m=1

The expected level of savings required will be eye watering, with a return to delays, cancellations and stupid short term cash savings all round. There does seem to be an acknowledgment that the UK needs to cut it commitment’s to suit its budget, but let’s see what actually materialises.

Might need to sell 2 arms and leg but return of the v force

I've just looked down the back of my sofa and found 56p. Just circa £10 billion to go and we could acquire a fleet of e.g ten with the idea of having six in frontline service. In all seriousness while we plainly cannot do anything anytime soon by the mid 2030s it might be worth proper consideration (but the conclusion would still likely be that too many other cuts would need to be made before the RAF could afford).

Phil Sayers wrote: ↑06 Dec 2022, 13:25 I've just looked down the back of my sofa and found 56p. Just circa £10 billion to go and we could acquire a fleet of e.g ten with the idea of having six in frontline service. In all seriousness while we plainly cannot do anything anytime soon by the mid 2030s it might be worth proper consideration (but the conclusion would still likely be that too many other cuts would need to be made before the RAF could afford).

The only way this even remotely appears on the radar is if there is a political decision to join the rest of the p5 and return to having an air launched nuclear capability.

More likely ensuring the U.K. is a fwd deployed location for USAF b21s and that we have the defensive capabilities to support such a deployment.

Phil Sayers wrote: ↑06 Dec 2022, 13:25 I've just looked down the back of my sofa and found 56p. Just circa £10 billion to go and we could acquire a fleet of e.g ten with the idea of having six in frontline service. In all seriousness while we plainly cannot do anything anytime soon by the mid 2030s it might be worth proper consideration (but the conclusion would still likely be that too many other cuts would need to be made before the RAF could afford).

I would suggest RAF crew serving on USAF B21's as an interim step, but then again we struggle to get enough pilots through training as it is.

How to fix Recruitment and retention, good place to start

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63976593

Dozens of military personnel and their families say they're having to live in damp, mould-infested housing without heating.
Some say they've been waiting days or sometimes weeks for repairs.
One mother who has a nine-month-old baby told the BBC there was "black mould everywhere".
The Ministry of Defence said it was unacceptable that some military families were not receiving the level of service they deserved.
It said it was working with its contractors to improve the service.
As temperatures have dropped, some of the military personnel have turned to social media to highlight the problem - a rare step for members of the armed forces.
It comes at a time that some military personnel are being asked to step in to cover striking workers, including ambulance staff.
The BBC has been contacted by families in military accommodation in Sandhurst who have lived without heating for most of the past week.
In a joint statement, they said: "We're at breaking point and something has to change. The system is broken.
"Calls go unanswered, and even if they are picked up, you're told there are no appointments for days."
They added that they were "scared for our children living in unsafe homes with black mould that has not been dealt with for months."

A lot of delays in new aircraft deliveries....

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/12/uk- ... -programs/

SW1 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2022, 18:51 How to fix Recruitment and retention, good place to start

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63976593

Dozens of military personnel and their families say they're having to live in damp, mould-infested housing without heating.
Some say they've been waiting days or sometimes weeks for repairs.
One mother who has a nine-month-old baby told the BBC there was "black mould everywhere".
The Ministry of Defence said it was unacceptable that some military families were not receiving the level of service they deserved.
It said it was working with its contractors to improve the service.
As temperatures have dropped, some of the military personnel have turned to social media to highlight the problem - a rare step for members of the armed forces.
It comes at a time that some military personnel are being asked to step in to cover striking workers, including ambulance staff.
The BBC has been contacted by families in military accommodation in Sandhurst who have lived without heating for most of the past week.
In a joint statement, they said: "We're at breaking point and something has to change. The system is broken.
"Calls go unanswered, and even if they are picked up, you're told there are no appointments for days."
They added that they were "scared for our children living in unsafe homes with black mould that has not been dealt with for months."

Absolutely, they have to get the basics right!

A decent standard of accommodation should be an absolute given!

The MOD will throw 'billions' away on poorly considered and managed programmes like Ajax and Wildcat, while the absolute basics like accommodation maintenance is in complete chaos....

Quite frankly its pathetic, unfortunately it's always been the way...

There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works

No point worrying about buying all the fancy toys when they can’t fund the basics

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ruins.html

If there is extra money for defence I wouldn’t be spending it on any more toys until these things are sorted out and if there isn’t new money they scaling back orders until this is sorted out is a must.

Tempest414 wrote: ↑12 Jan 2023, 11:22 There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works

Absolutely and the numbers will continue to slowly degrade until the Army gets into the 60,000's.

Retention is absolutely vital to all three services, that mean a good standard of accommodation from 18 year old recruits to guys leaving at 55 or older these days.

We also need good rates of pay, equivalent to the 'poor' cough, cough, Nurses and Fireman who are on an avarage of 35,000 a year, with many on considerably more .... And using food banks, talk about taking the piss out of Joe avarage!!!!

Other incentives like favourable selective engagement terms and Army reserve secondment need to be used far more, to retain vital skills.

A good friend of mine who brings a particularly valuable skill set to the Army was set on leaving, after much negotiation, he's effectively transferred to Army Reserve, but on permanent secondment to his old unit.

This gives him more time for 'other opportunities', but allows the Army to retain an important skill set.

So perhaps some lateral thinking is being used after all these days......

mrclark303 wrote: ↑23 Jan 2023, 21:26

Tempest414 wrote: ↑12 Jan 2023, 11:22 There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works

Absolutely and the numbers will continue to slowly degrade until the Army gets into the 60,000's.

Retention is absolutely vital to all three services, that mean a good standard of accommodation from 18 year old recruits to guys leaving at 55 or older these days.

We also need good rates of pay, equivalent to the 'poor' cough, cough, Nurses and Fireman who are on an avarage of 35,000 a year, with many on considerably more .... And using food banks, talk about taking the piss out of Joe avarage!!!!

Other incentives like favourable selective engagement terms and Army reserve secondment need to be used far more, to retain vital skills.

A good friend of mine who brings a particularly valuable skill set to the Army was set on leaving, after much negotiation, he's effectively transferred to Army Reserve, but on permanent secondment to his old unit.

This gives him more time for 'other opportunities', but allows the Army to retain an important skill set.

So perhaps some lateral thinking is being used after all these days......

You really need to go look a bit hard than the daily shit rags as some one who has worked for both the NHS and the RAF I can tell you my day to day was a lot easier in the RAF as for pay we need to look at apples for apples a newly qualified staff nurse after 4 years uni will get 35.000 now we have to put this against a newly commissioned Pilot Officer who gets 37,000 per year. now your new Auxilliary nurse earns less than 20,000 year the as your average trooper. Now my finishing pay as a Officer was 58K and my mate who was a WO1 in the Engineers was 61K where nurses I know over the same time frame was 45K

So no the army is not payed less than nurse who also have to put up with shit housing conditions when living in however nurses don't get the cheap beer squadies get in there messes