General UK Defence Discussion

For everything else UK defence-related that doesn't fit into any of the sections above.
topman
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by topman »

mrclark303 wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 21:26
Tempest414 wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 11:22 There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works
Absolutely and the numbers will continue to slowly degrade until the Army gets into the 60,000's.

Retention is absolutely vital to all three services, that mean a good standard of accommodation from 18 year old recruits to guys leaving at 55 or older these days.

We also need good rates of pay, equivalent to the 'poor' cough, cough, Nurses and Fireman who are on an avarage of 35,000 a year, with many on considerably more .... And using food banks, talk about taking the piss out of Joe avarage!!!!

Other incentives like favourable selective engagement terms and Army reserve secondment need to be used far more, to retain vital skills.

A good friend of mine who brings a particularly valuable skill set to the Army was set on leaving, after much negotiation, he's effectively transferred to Army Reserve, but on permanent secondment to his old unit.

This gives him more time for 'other opportunities', but allows the Army to retain an important skill set.

So perhaps some lateral thinking is being used after all these days......
PTVR has been around for years but only works in very narrow sets of circumstances.

topman
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by topman »

SW1 wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 19:59 No point worrying about buying all the fancy toys when they can’t fund the basics

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ruins.html

If there is extra money for defence I wouldn’t be spending it on any more toys until these things are sorted out and if there isn’t new money they scaling back orders until this is sorted out is a must.
I think we're hitting an avalanche of works services as buildings built in the 40s-60s start really falling apart. And we've got loads in that era.
There's supposed to be a program to replace all the ww2 hangars in use today. No idea how much that will cost, probably billions. Loads of sqns (tri service) are still operating from that era of hangar.

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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by SW1 »

topman wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 16:27
SW1 wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 19:59 No point worrying about buying all the fancy toys when they can’t fund the basics

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ruins.html

If there is extra money for defence I wouldn’t be spending it on any more toys until these things are sorted out and if there isn’t new money they scaling back orders until this is sorted out is a must.
I think we're hitting an avalanche of works services as buildings built in the 40s-60s start really falling apart. And we've got loads in that era.
There's supposed to be a program to replace all the ww2 hangars in use today. No idea how much that will cost, probably billions. Loads of sqns (tri service) are still operating from that era of hangar.
I could well imagine was considered a big issue when all the services returned from Germany all the “modern” facilities were over there all the ones here old. Old building of that era will be filled with all sorts of nasties that need specialists to remove.

The need for modern infrastructure is particularly important for retention. A bill that needs paying sooner rather than later a tough nettle to grasp.

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Tempest414
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

I do have to say the work done at Wattisham under the AAC has been great with all new buildings for all ranks and have first hand rooms and messes they were at the time starting on junior ranks married quarters in 2019 when I was last there

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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by topman »

Theres the odd unit that has decent buildings, but there's loads that need large parts tearing down and building from scratch.

Last time i was at halton, it was like being in a 1930s time warp. But as its down for closure, well at some point, it'll just have to make do.

I think waddo and cranwell have loads of heating problems still.

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Tempest414
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

topman wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 17:37 Theres the odd unit that has decent buildings, but there's loads that need large parts tearing down and building from scratch.

Last time i was at halton, it was like being in a 1930s time warp. But as its down for closure, well at some point, it'll just have to make do.

I think waddo and cranwell have loads of heating problems still.
I agree about Halton but the old git in me loved the old officers Mess Cranwell I found ok but the last time I was there it was a March. I don't about Waddo apart from I nearly had to shut down the E-3 shed due to fire shutter held open with bolts but this was 15 years ago

topman
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by topman »

Tempest414 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 17:52
topman wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 17:37 Theres the odd unit that has decent buildings, but there's loads that need large parts tearing down and building from scratch.

Last time i was at halton, it was like being in a 1930s time warp. But as its down for closure, well at some point, it'll just have to make do.

I think waddo and cranwell have loads of heating problems still.


I agree about Halton but the old git in me loved the old officers Mess Cranwell I found ok but the last time I was there it was a March. I don't about Waddo apart from I nearly had to shut down the E-3 shed due to fire shutter held open with bolts but this was 15 years ago

Station HSE advisor?

Half of aki would probably be closed, that's another dump.

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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by downsizer »

I can't think of an Air Force establishment I've visited in the last decade that isn't crumbling.

That said some of the F35 buildings are decent, but the rest of the station is falling apart.

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mrclark303
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by mrclark303 »

Tempest414 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 12:54
mrclark303 wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 21:26
Tempest414 wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 11:22 There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works
Absolutely and the numbers will continue to slowly degrade until the Army gets into the 60,000's.

Retention is absolutely vital to all three services, that mean a good standard of accommodation from 18 year old recruits to guys leaving at 55 or older these days.

We also need good rates of pay, equivalent to the 'poor' cough, cough, Nurses and Fireman who are on an avarage of 35,000 a year, with many on considerably more .... And using food banks, talk about taking the piss out of Joe avarage!!!!

Other incentives like favourable selective engagement terms and Army reserve secondment need to be used far more, to retain vital skills.

A good friend of mine who brings a particularly valuable skill set to the Army was set on leaving, after much negotiation, he's effectively transferred to Army Reserve, but on permanent secondment to his old unit.

This gives him more time for 'other opportunities', but allows the Army to retain an important skill set.

So perhaps some lateral thinking is being used after all these days......
You really need to go look a bit hard than the daily shit rags as some one who has worked for both the NHS and the RAF I can tell you my day to day was a lot easier in the RAF as for pay we need to look at apples for apples a newly qualified staff nurse after 4 years uni will get 35.000 now we have to put this against a newly commissioned Pilot Officer who gets 37,000 per year. now your new Auxilliary nurse earns less than 20,000 year the as your average trooper. Now my finishing pay as a Officer was 58K and my mate who was a WO1 in the Engineers was 61K where nurses I know over the same time frame was 45K

So no the army is not payed less than nurse who also have to put up with shit housing conditions when living in however nurses don't get the cheap beer squadies get in there messes
Fair points, my comment that "poor civil servants" on £35,000 plus, use food banks stands, it's TUC bullshit, designed to hoodwink the general public (the three quarters of the working public who in general are payed a hell of a lot less) that public servants gather around a candle, half starved in grubby flats ... It's a piss take and insulting.

Simply designed to bring down the government...

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mrclark303
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by mrclark303 »

topman wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 16:22
mrclark303 wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 21:26
Tempest414 wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 11:22 There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works
Absolutely and the numbers will continue to slowly degrade until the Army gets into the 60,000's.

Retention is absolutely vital to all three services, that mean a good standard of accommodation from 18 year old recruits to guys leaving at 55 or older these days.

We also need good rates of pay, equivalent to the 'poor' cough, cough, Nurses and Fireman who are on an avarage of 35,000 a year, with many on considerably more .... And using food banks, talk about taking the piss out of Joe avarage!!!!

Other incentives like favourable selective engagement terms and Army reserve secondment need to be used far more, to retain vital skills.

A good friend of mine who brings a particularly valuable skill set to the Army was set on leaving, after much negotiation, he's effectively transferred to Army Reserve, but on permanent secondment to his old unit.

This gives him more time for 'other opportunities', but allows the Army to retain an important skill set.

So perhaps some lateral thinking is being used after all these days......
PTVR has been around for years but only works in very narrow sets of circumstances.
I've two friends enjoying PTVR, both with different skill sets that the Army really didn't really want to loose.

Both heavily involved in specialist training.

It could be rolled out to other areas and isn't used anywhere near enough, they have to think laterally in this day and age to retain certain skill sets.

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Tempest414
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

mrclark303 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 20:15
Tempest414 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 12:54
mrclark303 wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 21:26
Tempest414 wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 11:22 There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works
Absolutely and the numbers will continue to slowly degrade until the Army gets into the 60,000's.

Retention is absolutely vital to all three services, that mean a good standard of accommodation from 18 year old recruits to guys leaving at 55 or older these days.

We also need good rates of pay, equivalent to the 'poor' cough, cough, Nurses and Fireman who are on an avarage of 35,000 a year, with many on considerably more .... And using food banks, talk about taking the piss out of Joe avarage!!!!

Other incentives like favourable selective engagement terms and Army reserve secondment need to be used far more, to retain vital skills.

A good friend of mine who brings a particularly valuable skill set to the Army was set on leaving, after much negotiation, he's effectively transferred to Army Reserve, but on permanent secondment to his old unit.

This gives him more time for 'other opportunities', but allows the Army to retain an important skill set.

So perhaps some lateral thinking is being used after all these days......
You really need to go look a bit hard than the daily shit rags as some one who has worked for both the NHS and the RAF I can tell you my day to day was a lot easier in the RAF as for pay we need to look at apples for apples a newly qualified staff nurse after 4 years uni will get 35.000 now we have to put this against a newly commissioned Pilot Officer who gets 37,000 per year. now your new Auxilliary nurse earns less than 20,000 year the as your average trooper. Now my finishing pay as a Officer was 58K and my mate who was a WO1 in the Engineers was 61K where nurses I know over the same time frame was 45K

So no the army is not payed less than nurse who also have to put up with shit housing conditions when living in however nurses don't get the cheap beer squadies get in there messes
Fair points, my comment that "poor civil servants" on £35,000 plus, use food banks stands, it's TUC bullshit, designed to hoodwink the general public (the three quarters of the working public who in general are payed a hell of a lot less) that public servants gather around a candle, half starved in grubby flats ... It's a piss take and insulting.
sin sin
Simply designed to bring down the government...
It is not black and white 35k in some places in the UK is on the poverty line dependant on your cerc i.e rent , mortgage , children ,single. But also you have to ask your self if 35k is deemed as good pay why did this government deem it necessary to give them self's a 25% pay rise from 63k to 84k at a time when most public sector workers took a 14 % pay cut which is now 23 % with the current inflation rate the sad fact is no one needs to bring this government down it's doing a good enough job of ripping it's self to bits

topman
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by topman »

mrclark303 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 21:01
topman wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 16:22
mrclark303 wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 21:26
Tempest414 wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 11:22 There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works
Absolutely and the numbers will continue to slowly degrade until the Army gets into the 60,000's.

Retention is absolutely vital to all three services, that mean a good standard of accommodation from 18 year old recruits to guys leaving at 55 or older these days.

We also need good rates of pay, equivalent to the 'poor' cough, cough, Nurses and Fireman who are on an avarage of 35,000 a year, with many on considerably more .... And using food banks, talk about taking the piss out of Joe avarage!!!!

Other incentives like favourable selective engagement terms and Army reserve secondment need to be used far more, to retain vital skills.

A good friend of mine who brings a particularly valuable skill set to the Army was set on leaving, after much negotiation, he's effectively transferred to Army Reserve, but on permanent secondment to his old unit.

This gives him more time for 'other opportunities', but allows the Army to retain an important skill set.

So perhaps some lateral thinking is being used after all these days......
PTVR has been around for years but only works in very narrow sets of circumstances.
I've two friends enjoying PTVR, both with different skill sets that the Army really didn't really want to loose.

Both heavily involved in specialist training.

It could be rolled out to other areas and isn't used anywhere near enough, they have to think laterally in this day and age to retain certain skill sets.
What areas isn't it being used but could be?

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mrclark303
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by mrclark303 »

topman wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 09:22
mrclark303 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 21:01
topman wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 16:22
mrclark303 wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 21:26
Tempest414 wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 11:22 There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works
Absolutely and the numbers will continue to slowly degrade until the Army gets into the 60,000's.

Retention is absolutely vital to all three services, that mean a good standard of accommodation from 18 year old recruits to guys leaving at 55 or older these days.

We also need good rates of pay, equivalent to the 'poor' cough, cough, Nurses and Fireman who are on an avarage of 35,000 a year, with many on considerably more .... And using food banks, talk about taking the piss out of Joe avarage!!!!

Other incentives like favourable selective engagement terms and Army reserve secondment need to be used far more, to retain vital skills.

A good friend of mine who brings a particularly valuable skill set to the Army was set on leaving, after much negotiation, he's effectively transferred to Army Reserve, but on permanent secondment to his old unit.

This gives him more time for 'other opportunities', but allows the Army to retain an important skill set.

So perhaps some lateral thinking is being used after all these days......
PTVR has been around for years but only works in very narrow sets of circumstances.
I've two friends enjoying PTVR, both with different skill sets that the Army really didn't really want to loose.

Both heavily involved in specialist training.

It could be rolled out to other areas and isn't used anywhere near enough, they have to think laterally in this day and age to retain certain skill sets.
What areas isn't it being used but could be?
I'm not sure, my mate tells me that certain 'specific' skill sets are being offered AR positions on permanent secondment, while other areas aren't.

He doesn't elaborate and neither should he.

He's involved in a very specialised area of training and it's possible of course they don't want him taking these skills into the private sector.....

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mrclark303
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by mrclark303 »

Tempest414 wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 09:15
mrclark303 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 20:15
Tempest414 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 12:54
mrclark303 wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 21:26
Tempest414 wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 11:22 There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works
Absolutely and the numbers will continue to slowly degrade until the Army gets into the 60,000's.

Retention is absolutely vital to all three services, that mean a good standard of accommodation from 18 year old recruits to guys leaving at 55 or older these days.

We also need good rates of pay, equivalent to the 'poor' cough, cough, Nurses and Fireman who are on an avarage of 35,000 a year, with many on considerably more .... And using food banks, talk about taking the piss out of Joe avarage!!!!

Other incentives like favourable selective engagement terms and Army reserve secondment need to be used far more, to retain vital skills.

A good friend of mine who brings a particularly valuable skill set to the Army was set on leaving, after much negotiation, he's effectively transferred to Army Reserve, but on permanent secondment to his old unit.

This gives him more time for 'other opportunities', but allows the Army to retain an important skill set.

So perhaps some lateral thinking is being used after all these days......
You really need to go look a bit hard than the daily shit rags as some one who has worked for both the NHS and the RAF I can tell you my day to day was a lot easier in the RAF as for pay we need to look at apples for apples a newly qualified staff nurse after 4 years uni will get 35.000 now we have to put this against a newly commissioned Pilot Officer who gets 37,000 per year. now your new Auxilliary nurse earns less than 20,000 year the as your average trooper. Now my finishing pay as a Officer was 58K and my mate who was a WO1 in the Engineers was 61K where nurses I know over the same time frame was 45K

So no the army is not payed less than nurse who also have to put up with shit housing conditions when living in however nurses don't get the cheap beer squadies get in there messes
Fair points, my comment that "poor civil servants" on £35,000 plus, use food banks stands, it's TUC bullshit, designed to hoodwink the general public (the three quarters of the working public who in general are payed a hell of a lot less) that public servants gather around a candle, half starved in grubby flats ... It's a piss take and insulting.
sin sin
Simply designed to bring down the government...
It is not black and white 35k in some places in the UK is on the poverty line dependant on your cerc i.e rent , mortgage , children ,single. But also you have to ask your self if 35k is deemed as good pay why did this government deem it necessary to give them self's a 25% pay rise from 63k to 84k at a time when most public sector workers took a 14 % pay cut which is now 23 % with the current inflation rate the sad fact is no one needs to bring this government down it's doing a good enough job of ripping it's self to bits
You know, it sort of is black and white....

Many couples work the arses off in the UK and barely make more £35,000 between them.

The hand ringing in the NHS rarely touches on the fantastic pentions, regular pay rises and promotions
(regardless of skill in many areas) and excellent job security.

Like I said, it's all rather insulting to Joe and Joan avarage that work in Tesco's...

The strikes are wearing thin and the NHS for one is headed for privatisation. Ironically they are forcing this on themselves.....

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Tempest414
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

mrclark303 wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 12:18
Tempest414 wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 09:15
mrclark303 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 20:15
Tempest414 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 12:54
mrclark303 wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 21:26
Tempest414 wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 11:22 There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works
Absolutely and the numbers will continue to slowly degrade until the Army gets into the 60,000's.

Retention is absolutely vital to all three services, that mean a good standard of accommodation from 18 year old recruits to guys leaving at 55 or older these days.

We also need good rates of pay, equivalent to the 'poor' cough, cough, Nurses and Fireman who are on an avarage of 35,000 a year, with many on considerably more .... And using food banks, talk about taking the piss out of Joe avarage!!!!

Other incentives like favourable selective engagement terms and Army reserve secondment need to be used far more, to retain vital skills.

A good friend of mine who brings a particularly valuable skill set to the Army was set on leaving, after much negotiation, he's effectively transferred to Army Reserve, but on permanent secondment to his old unit.

This gives him more time for 'other opportunities', but allows the Army to retain an important skill set.

So perhaps some lateral thinking is being used after all these days......
You really need to go look a bit hard than the daily shit rags as some one who has worked for both the NHS and the RAF I can tell you my day to day was a lot easier in the RAF as for pay we need to look at apples for apples a newly qualified staff nurse after 4 years uni will get 35.000 now we have to put this against a newly commissioned Pilot Officer who gets 37,000 per year. now your new Auxilliary nurse earns less than 20,000 year the as your average trooper. Now my finishing pay as a Officer was 58K and my mate who was a WO1 in the Engineers was 61K where nurses I know over the same time frame was 45K

So no the army is not payed less than nurse who also have to put up with shit housing conditions when living in however nurses don't get the cheap beer squadies get in there messes
Fair points, my comment that "poor civil servants" on £35,000 plus, use food banks stands, it's TUC bullshit, designed to hoodwink the general public (the three quarters of the working public who in general are payed a hell of a lot less) that public servants gather around a candle, half starved in grubby flats ... It's a piss take and insulting.
sin sin
Simply designed to bring down the government...
It is not black and white 35k in some places in the UK is on the poverty line dependant on your cerc i.e rent , mortgage , children ,single. But also you have to ask your self if 35k is deemed as good pay why did this government deem it necessary to give them self's a 25% pay rise from 63k to 84k at a time when most public sector workers took a 14 % pay cut which is now 23 % with the current inflation rate the sad fact is no one needs to bring this government down it's doing a good enough job of ripping it's self to bits
You know, it sort of is black and white....

Many couples work the arses off in the UK and barely make more £35,000 between them.

The hand ringing in the NHS rarely touches on the fantastic pentions, regular pay rises and promotions
(regardless of skill in many areas) and excellent job security.

Like I said, it's all rather insulting to Joe and Joan avarage that work in Tesco's...

The strikes are wearing thin and the NHS for one is headed for privatisation. Ironically they are forcing this on themselves.....
NOthis government are forcing privatisation of the NHS on you right now half of the UK can't get dental care as there is no NHS dentists this will work its way across the health care please remember there is none so blind as those who will not see

Your Joe and Joan average are in real terms poverty right now due 20 years of piss poor governments and need the NHS more than ever and not some private mates club
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mrclark303
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by mrclark303 »

Tempest414 wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 12:39
mrclark303 wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 12:18
Tempest414 wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 09:15
mrclark303 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 20:15
Tempest414 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 12:54
mrclark303 wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 21:26
Tempest414 wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 11:22 There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works
Absolutely and the numbers will continue to slowly degrade until the Army gets into the 60,000's.

Retention is absolutely vital to all three services, that mean a good standard of accommodation from 18 year old recruits to guys leaving at 55 or older these days.

We also need good rates of pay, equivalent to the 'poor' cough, cough, Nurses and Fireman who are on an avarage of 35,000 a year, with many on considerably more .... And using food banks, talk about taking the piss out of Joe avarage!!!!

Other incentives like favourable selective engagement terms and Army reserve secondment need to be used far more, to retain vital skills.

A good friend of mine who brings a particularly valuable skill set to the Army was set on leaving, after much negotiation, he's effectively transferred to Army Reserve, but on permanent secondment to his old unit.

This gives him more time for 'other opportunities', but allows the Army to retain an important skill set.

So perhaps some lateral thinking is being used after all these days......
You really need to go look a bit hard than the daily shit rags as some one who has worked for both the NHS and the RAF I can tell you my day to day was a lot easier in the RAF as for pay we need to look at apples for apples a newly qualified staff nurse after 4 years uni will get 35.000 now we have to put this against a newly commissioned Pilot Officer who gets 37,000 per year. now your new Auxilliary nurse earns less than 20,000 year the as your average trooper. Now my finishing pay as a Officer was 58K and my mate who was a WO1 in the Engineers was 61K where nurses I know over the same time frame was 45K

So no the army is not payed less than nurse who also have to put up with shit housing conditions when living in however nurses don't get the cheap beer squadies get in there messes
Fair points, my comment that "poor civil servants" on £35,000 plus, use food banks stands, it's TUC bullshit, designed to hoodwink the general public (the three quarters of the working public who in general are payed a hell of a lot less) that public servants gather around a candle, half starved in grubby flats ... It's a piss take and insulting.
sin sin
Simply designed to bring down the government...
It is not black and white 35k in some places in the UK is on the poverty line dependant on your cerc i.e rent , mortgage , children ,single. But also you have to ask your self if 35k is deemed as good pay why did this government deem it necessary to give them self's a 25% pay rise from 63k to 84k at a time when most public sector workers took a 14 % pay cut which is now 23 % with the current inflation rate the sad fact is no one needs to bring this government down it's doing a good enough job of ripping it's self to bits
You know, it sort of is black and white....

Many couples work the arses off in the UK and barely make more £35,000 between them.

The hand ringing in the NHS rarely touches on the fantastic pentions, regular pay rises and promotions
(regardless of skill in many areas) and excellent job security.

Like I said, it's all rather insulting to Joe and Joan avarage that work in Tesco's...

The strikes are wearing thin and the NHS for one is headed for privatisation. Ironically they are forcing this on themselves.....
NOthis government are forcing privatisation of the NHS on you right now half of the UK can't get dental care as there is no NHS dentists this will work its way across the health care please remember there is none so blind as those who will not see

Your Joe and Joan average are in real terms poverty right now due 20 years of piss poor governments and need the NHS more than ever and not some private mates club
I honestly don't see any evidence of a Conservative agenda to privatise the NHS, Mrs Thatcher was accused of plotting it, 17 years later, still fully in public hands....

Then we had Labour and Tony's grand plan for building hospitals on the never ever via PPFI and leaving a ticking financial time bomb for others to clear up... Well done Tony!

Massive increase in spending though.... Then coalition, then back to Conservative....

Further 'massive' increases in spending, we are now in the region of 180 billion and things are just getting worse and it's backsliding. At the same time the NHS share of GDP is straining our finances and quite frankly not delivering.

Ever increasing budget = declining service, curious.....

What's the answer, chuck ever more money at a failed system??

Clearly root and branch reform is needed, will that be full privatisation I wonder??

Does it really matter, as long as it's free at the point of access??

I had surgery last year at a marvelous private hospital, referred by the NHS and had absolutely top quality treatment from start to finish, paid by the tax payer....

What's the problem with using that as a model and turning the NHS into a purely service commissioning body to private medicine?

NHS dentistry is an odd one, it's extremely lucrative... Unfortunately private dentistry is literally a licence to print money, I know, a mate has his own practice and he's building a fabulous property portfolio on the back of it £££££££!

I'm not sure how you convince dentists to make a small fortune in the NHS, when they can make an absolute killing in the private sector??

Back to our discussion, the NHS is on avarage paid well, with excellent pension benefits, regular pay rises and cast iron job security....

Yet they scream for unaffordable pay rises, clapped on and encouraged by a TUC with its own particular socialist axe to grind.

The answer is certainly not going on strike and making the situation worse, it will probably only hasten the demise of the current model and bring in full privatisation.... A sad fact, it's looking increasingly unavoidable.

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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

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We are never going to see eye to eye but what I would say you are right the Tories have spent a bit more money but you need know were that money has gone and to who a lot of the extra money has gone to private companies who are under performing just like when the MOD privatised recruitment on top of this due to poor recruitment in the NHS also privatised a lot of money goes on agency staff and on sickness due to staff being over worked but as I say we will never see eye to eye but what we can agree on is a change is needed
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by topman »

mrclark303 wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 12:11
topman wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 09:22
mrclark303 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 21:01
topman wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 16:22
mrclark303 wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 21:26
Tempest414 wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 11:22 There are two problems with Army housing one the money for base upkeep goes to the regiment that is stay in it and as they will be moved on in short time they cream off the top for regiment coffers second is all work is carried out under contacts to give you an idea the last works that were carried out on my unit cost nearly £10,000 for a max £2000 worth of works
Absolutely and the numbers will continue to slowly degrade until the Army gets into the 60,000's.

Retention is absolutely vital to all three services, that mean a good standard of accommodation from 18 year old recruits to guys leaving at 55 or older these days.

We also need good rates of pay, equivalent to the 'poor' cough, cough, Nurses and Fireman who are on an avarage of 35,000 a year, with many on considerably more .... And using food banks, talk about taking the piss out of Joe avarage!!!!

Other incentives like favourable selective engagement terms and Army reserve secondment need to be used far more, to retain vital skills.

A good friend of mine who brings a particularly valuable skill set to the Army was set on leaving, after much negotiation, he's effectively transferred to Army Reserve, but on permanent secondment to his old unit.

This gives him more time for 'other opportunities', but allows the Army to retain an important skill set.

So perhaps some lateral thinking is being used after all these days......
PTVR has been around for years but only works in very narrow sets of circumstances.
I've two friends enjoying PTVR, both with different skill sets that the Army really didn't really want to loose.

Both heavily involved in specialist training.

It could be rolled out to other areas and isn't used anywhere near enough, they have to think laterally in this day and age to retain certain skill sets.
What areas isn't it being used but could be?
I'm not sure, my mate tells me that certain 'specific' skill sets are being offered AR positions on permanent secondment, while other areas aren't.

He doesn't elaborate and neither should he.

He's involved in a very specialised area of training and it's possible of course they don't want him taking these skills into the private sector.....
Difficult to say whether it'll work or not then. But like i said it only works in really specialised areas.

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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

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I wonder how much the downturn in the economy will affect the recruitment and retention?
Last time there was a downturn the traditional slow down of PVRs disappeared. The link between the state of the economy and people leaving was described as 'broken', will it be the same again?

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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

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topman wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 18:30 I wonder how much the downturn in the economy will affect the recruitment and retention?
Last time there was a downturn the traditional slow down of PVRs disappeared. The link between the state of the economy and people leaving was described as 'broken', will it be the same again?
I think it will very much depend, on the aerospace and engineering side things have never been busier and with large number also retiring in those sectors plenty of opportunities.

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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

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topman wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 19:13
Tempest414 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 17:52
topman wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 17:37 Theres the odd unit that has decent buildings, but there's loads that need large parts tearing down and building from scratch.

Last time i was at halton, it was like being in a 1930s time warp. But as its down for closure, well at some point, it'll just have to make do.

I think waddo and cranwell have loads of heating problems still.


I agree about Halton but the old git in me loved the old officers Mess Cranwell I found ok but the last time I was there it was a March. I don't about Waddo apart from I nearly had to shut down the E-3 shed due to fire shutter held open with bolts but this was 15 years ago

Station HSE advisor?

Half of aki would probably be closed, that's another dump.
No I was never stationed at Woddo ( I was a Engineering Officer )

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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by zanahoria »

An article from Deborah Haynes; nothing that most (all?) of us on here haven’t already decried or warned about whether in private or more publicly on this forum:

https://news.sky.com/story/us-general-w ... l-12798365
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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

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zanahoria wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 01:39 An article from Deborah Haynes; nothing that most (all?) of us on here haven’t already decried or warned about whether in private or more publicly on this forum:

https://news.sky.com/story/us-general-w ... l-12798365
The silence over 3% comes as absolutely no surprise to all of us, even the 2.5% option appears to have faltered.

We have to be prepared to play bit part roles in future with our US partners, as force levels across the board are all far below critical mass.

Maybe that's fine, but I do wish they would be honest about it....

Possibly the only areas that's risen in capability, is the national ability to deploy a very capable Carrier Battle Group, our cyber abilities and an increased and graduated SF force.

The new Rangers Regiment will be a very effective force multiplier for UKSF, when it's fully formed and operational, taking over a lot of the soft power missions from the force and providing an obvious pool of additional manpower for future SF recruitment.

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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by SW1 »

The defence review/refresh must be getting to its capital allocation phase. First boats now the little help from our friends leak….

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Re: General UK Defence Discussion

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zanahoria wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 01:39 An article from Deborah Haynes; nothing that most (all?) of us on here haven’t already decried or warned about whether in private or more publicly on this forum:

https://news.sky.com/story/us-general-w ... l-12798365
very interesting however if I am right as of 2022 the army stood at 79,000 plus 4000 Gurkha's full time and 28,500 reserves

for me if the army can be kept at that level and we can add 1500 Gurkha's to allow 1 more infantry battalion and a artillery regiment we could be in a better place size wise

I think we then need to set out what we want from the army i.e I would like to see

1st division = 3 x Light Mechanised brigades with
1 x Cavalry regt , 3 x LM infantry battalions , 1 x artillery regt , 1 x Logistics & engineer groups
plus 2 x reserve battalion battle groups

2nd division = 2 x Rapid reaction brigades the special force assistance brigade
1 x Para brigade , 1 x Gurkha brigade , 1 x Special force Assistance brigade , 1 x Aviation Brigade

3rd division = 1 x Deep fire brigade , 3 x armoured brigades with
1 x Cavalry regt , 1 x Armoured regt , 3 x infantry battalions , 1 x artillery regt , 1 x logistics & engineer groups
plus 2 x reserve battalion battle groups

6th division would stand pretty much as it is under FS

Once we have a layout we can equip it properly
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