MBDA (UK)

[Ron5]

MBDA - roughly two thirds French, Italian & German
Thales - French
Leonardo - Italian
Safran - French
Roxel - French
CEA - French

Yep, something for the UK to be truly proud of

[Timmymagic]

Exceptionally good spot from Gabi.

Has MBDA Fireshadow been resurrected? If so its very quiet...or is this, an admittedly very good, photoshop...its definitely not a Hero 1250 or any other U-Vision product...

[Timmymagic]

UK in talks with Ukraine in regards to selling Brimstone....could be significant as it would be the first surface to surface (and naval) sale.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brit ... -7fmdddsmk (subscriber link)

It appears this is in its Sea Spear guise, for use in a surface to surface role, on Ukrainian missile boats. At present its intergovernmental talks, not sure if this is for the new UK designed (and for one ship, built) missile boats or the Ukrainian Navy's existing ships (although The Time's does say vessels that the Ukrainian Navy has in service which would likely be the ex-US Island Class, the ex-US MkVI patrol boats or the Gurza-M vessels).

Other outlets have also mentioned helicopter use....

It could answer the question we had about what the missile armament is on the UK built/designed boats, the images listed Render 1 and Render 2 from Babcock in the below article could have Sea Spear launchers at the rear of the vessel. The pictures of a model in the same image set in the article illustrate a more heavily armed variant, including what appears to be a 76mm Oto gun and larger AShM's (although the missile canisters shown are not for large AShM's like Harpoon or NSM)

https://www.navylookout.com/small-warsh ... -scotland/


Also appears that another user of Brimstone might be on the way (in addition to the RAF, Saudi Arabia and Qatar)...apparently Kuwait might be getting it with their new Typhoons...along with Storm Shadow.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... now-flying

[Timmymagic]

Defence Secretary visited MBDA's new facility at Bolton...interesting view of Meteor being assembled.

[Ron5]

Defence Secretary visited MBDA's new facility at Bolton...interesting view of Meteor being assembled.

Good opportunity for them to express to him what they think about Brimstone not being selected for the UK's new Apaches.

[Timmymagic]

Google translated article from the below, appears to shed some more light on Ukraine's possible Brimstone purchase. From the text it appears to be nailed on for the first 2 boats, with a potential for sales on helo's by the sounds of it. Then they'll switch to the larger Ukrainian Neptune missile that is still in development.

https://naukatehnika.com/kakie-raketyi- ... tanii.html

Yesterday the British edition of The Times published inside information that the UK will sell surface-to-surface missiles for Ukrainian patrol boats and air-to-surface missiles for Ukrainian aircraft. The cost of one Brimstone rocket is £ 100,000. The message also mentions that these will be Brimstone missiles developed and manufactured by the international company MBDA UK, which specializes in the manufacture of rocket ammunition. At the same time, the British edition does not indicate when exactly this delivery will take place. At the same time, the report notes that the British government has fears that Russia is planning a winter military operation against Ukraine, which could lead to an escalation of tensions in Donbas and will have unpredictable consequences for the security of all of Europe. Therefore, it can be assumed that the sale of these missiles will take place soon.

On October 14, Ukrainian Ambassador to Great Britain Vadim Prystaiko said that in the near future Ukraine will acquire two operational ships from Great Britain, which will be armed with British missiles and will immediately become part of our Navy. And in early August, he reported that within the framework of a memorandum signed on June 21 between the two countries, British and Ukrainian engineers are working together to develop a model of a new missile boat for Ukraine based on the British project P50U. “The first two boats of this project will have British missiles. But in the future, we plan to deploy domestic weapons there, first of all - the Neptune missile system,” Prystaiko said at the time. In turn, Tim Woods, the Defense Attaché of the British Embassy in Ukraine, noted that the British have nothing against Ukrainian missiles, but there is a technical problem that needs to be addressed. “We are watching the Neptune, which Ukraine is developing and which, after full commissioning, will be a combat-ready missile system. But the current size of these boats does not allow us to accommodate the Neptune. Therefore, we had to go for a smaller, but very powerful, modern missile system,” - explained Woods. It is not yet known whether The Times report and the statements of Prystaiko and Woods refer to the same missiles, but it is very likely that they do. That is, ship-borne surface-to-surface missiles will soon be sold to Ukraine together with two boats, and air-to-surface missiles - separately for use by Ukrainian military aviation. Although it is also possible that we are talking about various projects and surface-to-surface missiles will be sold to Ukraine separately and irrespective of the boats - for use on the facilities already available in the Ukrainian Navy.

What rockets are we talking about? Featured in The Times, the Brimstone surface-to-surface missile is a high-tech, self-guided, supersonic missile developed by the MDBA international consortium for British combat aviation. The missile entered service with the country in 2005 and was widely used by the British Air Force in operations in Afghanistan, Libya, and since December 2015 in Syria. Brimstone is also currently used by the Saudi Air Force. In 2017, plans were announced to transfer it to the Qatar Air Force, but so far this has not been done. The Brimstone missile has an active radar homing head, which allows it to hit moving targets with great accuracy. In addition, the possibility of laser guidance is provided. The total mass of the rocket is 49 kg with a length of 1.8 meters. The maximum launch range can reach 11.2 km with a maximum altitude of 6 km. Unlike similar systems, the warhead of the Brimstone missile is arranged on a tandem principle, which provides more effective destruction of targets with modern types of armor. At the same time, a relatively small affected area allows you to reduce the associated losses. As for surface-to-surface missiles (also called surface-to-surface missiles, although this definition is not very accurate, since these missiles can also be launched from floating platforms and hit surface targets) for Ukrainian boats, this is not the case. unambiguously. After all, Great Britain does not produce specialized ship-type missiles. At the same time, on the official website of the MDBA consortium, it was possible to find information that the already mentioned Brimstone rocket, in addition to air carriers, is also suitable for deployment on a wide range of ground and other platforms. Therefore, it is possible that these missiles will be adapted for launch from boats and will arrive in Ukraine together with aviation ones. And the Ukrainian army already has experience in using air and even anti-aircraft missiles against surface targets. You can recall how in the fall of 2018, at a military training ground in the Odessa region, the Armed Forces of Ukraine worked out a coastal defense system using the modernized S-125 anti-aircraft missile system. Result: eight launches - eight surface targets destroyed.

Neptune is based on the ex-Soviet Kh-35 and is a rather larger missile than Brimstone...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_(cruise_missile)

[dmereifield]

Lots of things not clear there - sounds like the UK are providing two ships quite rapidly, according to that. What, where, how and when? If it's not even contracted yet, it isn't going to be prompt. Does this refer to 2 UK built missile boats (is it still 2, I thought it was reduced to 1), or is the UK going to provide something else (retired T23's)???

[Timmymagic]

Lots of things not clear there - sounds like the UK are providing two ships quite rapidly, according to that. What, where, how and when? If it's not even contracted yet, it isn't going to be prompt. Does this refer to 2 UK built missile boats (is it still 2, I thought it was reduced to 1), or is the UK going to provide something else (retired T23's)???

Likely to be 2 built in the UK, they won't take too long for Babcocks to knock up, they're not an especially complex build. Sea Spear could fit on any of the smaller Ukrainian ships in service if they want the missiles sooner. They could even be delivered from UK stockpiles if really required soon. No chance of Ukraine getting a T23, far too complex and the examples available are too knackered without huge investment.

[Timmymagic]

As part of their HX Proposal for the Finnish fighter replacement programme alongside the Gripen E/F and Globaleye AEW aircraft, Saab also proposed a small EW missile, the LADM, as a sweetener, with some development work promised for Finland if it went ahead.

https://www.saab.com/newsroom/press-rel ... for-gripen

There were a couple of renders around...

Spear-EW lookalike...

Spice 250 lookalike...


Well....<<<Drum Roll>>>....to no-ones surprise it turns out that its a Spear-EW variant...only with a Saab Arexis payload instead of Leonardo BriteCloud derived payload. Have to wonder why they're bothering....and also have to wonder how much Finnish content there could possibly be...

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/saab ... aks-cover/
Model displayed at AOC Europe 2021 (EW conference held in Liverpool)...a Spear-EW model from MBDA with different name plate below...



Article Text
Saab and MBDA have disclosed that they are working together on the development of a miniaturised powered decoy that will form part of Saab's Arexis airborne electronic warfare (EW) product portfolio.

Revealed at the AOC Europe 2021 conference and exhibition in Liverpool on 12 October, the proposed Arexis air-launched decoy would integrate a Saab electronic attack (EA) payload into the air vehicle and wider weapons system architecture already in development by MBDA for the SPEAR-EW stand-in jammer.

Saab describes Arexis as a family of airborne EW solutions addressing threat warning, situational awareness, self-protection, and EA. The company first announced its concept for a small, long range/long endurance EW decoy in 2017, and has kept the Swedish Air Force, the Defence Materiel Administration, and the Defence Research Agency appraised of its work.

However, the presence of an Arexis air-launched decoy model at AOC Europe 2021 was the first time that the company had publicly revealed that it was co-operating with MBDA to explore an adaptation of SPEAR-EW.

[Ron5]

Have to wonder why they're bothering....

Different or better capabilities?

[SW1]

Future combat system partners stand off weapons..

[Timmymagic]

Future combat system partners stand off weapons..

Doubtful. For Tempest the UK and Italy would both go with Spear-EW with Leonardo's BriteCloud inside, for FCAS Saab aren't in the mix. Germany with Airbus, Hensoldt and Diehl involved won't want anybody else involved in the EW space. They seem set on the RemoteCarrier 100 concept.

[Timmymagic]

Have to wonder why they're bothering....

Different or better capabilities?

I don't doubt Saab has good EW capabilities, but there's only so much that can be done with the space and power available in a Spear form factor, and when it comes to minituarised EW payloads the BriteCloud seems to be out there on its own.

As to the capabilities it appears to be looking to do exactly the same role as Spear-EW, stand in jamming and decoy work.

To be honest if I was Saab the direction I would have gone in would have been larger EW payloads for Loyal Wingmen/larger UCAV's or the larger, retrievable RemoteCarriers. There's a pretty large gap in the market there and could have re-used their Arexis self protection and offensive EW pods. The market for disposable EW systems like Spear-EW or MALD-J is pretty small (albeit likely to grow).

[SW1]

Future combat system partners stand off weapons..

Doubtful. For Tempest the UK and Italy would both go with Spear-EW with Leonardo's BriteCloud inside, for FCAS Saab aren't in the mix. Germany with Airbus, Hensoldt and Diehl involved won't want anybody else involved in the EW space. They seem set on the RemoteCarrier 100 concept.

I was referring to team tempest, Saab are part of team aren’t they.

[Timmymagic]

I was referring to team tempest, Saab are part of team aren’t they.

They are, but 2 of the other consortium members are likely to favour Spear-EW.

Reality is this LADM might not see fruition if the Finn's don't purchase Gripen, Spear-EW is years ahead in practice.

[SW1]

I was referring to team tempest, Saab are part of team aren’t they.

They are, but 2 of the other consortium members are likely to favour Spear-EW.

Reality is this LADM might not see fruition if the Finn's don't purchase Gripen, Spear-EW is years ahead in practice.

Suppose for a moment Sweden sees saab and its ew division as a critical national investment would it be more likely to invest in the development of the missile, it’s concept of use and platform integration ect if it can have a saab payload in the missile. It may also highlight the open architecture of the program allowing payloads to be changed on commonly designed weapons that allows workshare for national governments.

[ArmChairCivvy]

It is refreshing to see someone talking in terms of TRLs:
"a nine-point Technical Readiness Level (TRL) scale that helps categorize project stages by identifying scope, progress, timelines, and resource requirements".

Further, once the ownership of MDBA had been exposed [above; quote does not seem to be working for embedded 'quotes'], going back to the 'refreshed' list of prgrm members, Leonardo is there, thus, twice... may be the 2nd appearance is a 'Scottish' company .

[ArmChairCivvy]

As for missiles for Ukraine (AShM use) Google translate did not make it clear that the reference was to a type of boat, as the launch platform:
" что в рамках подписанного 21 июня меморандума между двумя странами британские и украинские инженеры совместно работают над разработкой для Украины модели нового ракетного катера на базе британского проекта P50U."
- the specification being the last word in the above

Источник контента: https://naukatehnika.com/kakie-raketyi- ... tanii.html
naukatehnika.com

[Timmymagic]

Poland has selected CAMM as the missile for its NAREW air defence system. This will be a big contract, possibly the biggest to date.



It just keeps racking up sales...sales campaigns are underway elsewhere as well (Finland definitely known about..others as well).

CAMM/CAMM-ER customers to date: CAMM in Blue, CAMM-ER in Red, Both missiles in Green)

Royal Navy
British Army (Cmdr 7 AD recently confirmed CAMM-ER will happen)
Royal New Zealand Navy
Chilean Navy
Brazilian Navy
Italian Navy
Italian Air Force
Italian Army
Royal Canadian Navy
Pakistan Navy
Polish Army

Please note: I've removed the Brazilian Marines from the list. Although it was reported, it now appears that it has only been proposed as part of a development of the Avibras Astros2020 MLRS system, apparently its still underway, but I can see little about it at present so have removed.

Given the shared nature of the UK's stockpile I think its increasingly likely that we will see RN ships field CAMM-ER as well, until this is fully confirmed I'll leave as CAMM only. Also from previous Polish Government announcements I suspect this will also involve CAMM-ER sales to meet a longer range criteria. But for now only CAMM is mentioned.

https://www.defence24.com/polish-army-c ... contractor

UK Government Press Release

A first for the UK-Poland relationship, the Statement of Intent will see the two countries share pioneering technology to develop NAREW, Poland’s future Ground-Based Air Defence System, which is anticipated to have a multi-billion-pound budget.

The agreement will provide enhanced security and defence development for both countries, while developing and sustaining critical skills across the missile sector in Poland and the UK.

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said:

This agreement will deliver a step change in our defence co-operation with Poland and paves the way for our militaries to operate even more closely.

Minister Błaszczak and I look forward to seeing the GBAD partnership develop.

Britain and Poland have historically stood side by side against a range of threats and will continue to deepen our partnership.

In the UK, MBDA’s Common Anti-air Modular Missile (CAMM) family has been confirmed for the NAREW programme. Flying at supersonic speeds, CAMM missiles can destroy modern air threats including stealth aircraft and high-speed missiles. Each CAMM family missile is equipped with an advanced active radar seeker that can see even the smallest, fastest and stealthiest targets through the worst weather and the heaviest electronic jamming.

Chris Allam, Managing Director MBDA UK:

MBDA is delighted to be playing such a leading role in the UK-Poland Defence partnership. This agreement endorses the deep relationship we have formed with Poland’s Ministry of National Defence and Polish Industry and is underpinned by the nature of our unprecedented technology co-operation and transfer proposal for NAREW and Polish Air Defence.

In choosing MBDA, and the CAMM family, Poland will receive the benefits of a true European missile partnership, the latest capabilities, and the ability to secure and develop highly skilled jobs in its defence industry. We thank Poland for the trust placed in us and we look forward to delivering this programme in co-operation with PGZ.

The Statement of Intent was signed during the Defence Secretary’s visit to Poland where he reaffirmed the UK’s commitment to European defence and security and NATO Allies. The Defence Ministers visited personnel in Bemowo Piskie Camp, Orzysz, where the UK Armed Forces are serving alongside Polish and other NATO Allies as part of NATO’s Enhanced Forward Presence.

The Defence Secretary and Minister Błaszczak also discussed the current situation along Poland’s border with Belarus. The Defence Secretary affirmed UK support for Poland, and the UK’s firm condemnation the Lukashenko regime’s attempt to engineer a migration crisis to undermine Poland, Latvia and Lithuania. He confirmed the UK will continue to offer practical support through the deployment of UK military engineers to provide engineering technical and liaison assistance and wider engineering support to Polish military personnel deployed at the border.

Poland and the UK are both investing in improving capabilities and in modernising our Armed Forces, exceeding NATO’s Defence spending target of 2% of GDP. The bilateral relationship between the nations is strong, with forces operating side by side on land, at sea and in the air. Endeavours to work together to face shared challenges are underpinned by the Defence and Security Cooperation Treaty signed in 2017.

[Ron5]

Excellent. Thanks Timmy

[Timmymagic]

Another update....Qatar is getting ASRAAM (presumably Blk.VI, the new version with CAMM improvements and UK seeker). Not seen it announced but it has appeared in BAE's annual report to shareholders....which means its done. They're also getting Meteor and Brimstone...

CAMM/CAMM-ER customers to date: CAMM in Blue, CAMM-ER in Red, Both in Green)
Royal Navy
British Army (Cmdr 7 AD recently confirmed CAMM-ER will happen)
Royal New Zealand Navy
Chilean Navy
Brazilian Navy
Italian Navy
Italian Air Force
Italian Army
Royal Canadian Navy
Pakistan Navy

Please note: I've removed the Brazilian Marines from the list. Although it was reported, it now appears that it has only been proposed as part of a development of the Avibras Astros2020 MLRS system, apparently its still underway, but I can see little about it at present so have removed.

Given the nature of the UK's shared missile stockpile I have a feeling the RN will be moving to Green in due course...

Potential sale for Sweden on the Visby Class now they're thinking of actually adding surface to air missiles (the originally proposed Umkhonto missiles from South Africa, whose installation was cut when the ships were being built, are now seen as a non-starter due to lack of development and issues elsewhere..), its hard to think of a more perfect fit than CAMM on a 800 tonne vessel, or indeed any missile with decent capability that will go aboard such a small vessel). Potential also for the Ukrainian Missile boats which have been displayed with (what appears to be) ExLS VL, which should mean CAMM (as its the only missile that is integrated with ExLS). Campaigns are also underway in Finland and other nations (suspect Saudi, Kuwait, Oman and Qatar being amongst them..).

ASRAAM Users (Asraam in Blue, Asraam and Asraam CSP in Red)
Royal Air Force
Royal Australian Air Force
Indian Air Force
Qatar Air Force (Likely Asraam CSP/Block VI only when delivered).

It should be noted that there has not been word yet on whether India will move to CSP (Block VI) in due course or it the RAAF will be retaining ASRAAM in service with the withdrawal of the 'Classic' Hornet fleet. ASRAAM is compatible with F-35A, the RAAF purchases of AIM-9X have not been enormous to date (they were principally for SuperHornet which Asraam was never integrated on) and the RAAF did like ASRAAM a lot...in addition the Australian ASRAAM stockpile will have a very decent number of years left on its shelf life. The Australian's seem to retain missiles in stock for a quite considerable time, in fact 9L and M are still in abundance in RAAF service. The only potential second hand purchaser of their stockpile would be India as the UK, and I suspect Qatar, will be CSP only. Any such sale would require US approval as well as the seeker head and other items are covered by ITAR.

[Ron5]

Another update....Qatar is getting ASRAAM (presumably Blk.VI, the new version with CAMM improvements and UK seeker). Not seen it announced but it has appeared in BAE's annual report to shareholders....which means its done. They're also getting Meteor and Brimstone...

CAMM/CAMM-ER customers to date: CAMM in Blue, CAMM-ER in Red, Both in Green)
Royal Navy
British Army (Cmdr 7 AD recently confirmed CAMM-ER will happen)
Royal New Zealand Navy
Chilean Navy
Brazilian Navy
Brazilian Marines
Italian Navy
Italian Air Force
Italian Army
Royal Canadian Navy
Pakistan Navy

Given the nature of the UK's shared missile stockpile I have a feeling the RN will be moving to Green in due course...

Potential sale for Sweden on the Visby Class now they're thinking of actually adding surface to air missiles (the original Umkhonto missiles from South Africa are now seen as a non-starter due to lack of development and issues elsewhere.., hard to think of a more perfect fit than CAMM on a 800 tonne vessel, or indeed any missile with decent capability that will go aboard such a small vessel). Potential also for the Ukrainian Missile boats which have been displayed with (what appears to be) ExLS VL, which means CAMM as its the only missile that integrated to it. Campaigns underway in Finland and other nations (suspect Saudi, Kuwait, Oman and Qatar being amongst them..).

ASRAAM Users (Asraam in Blue, Asraam and Asraam CSP in Red)
Royal Air Force
Royal Australian Air Force
Indian Air Force
Qatar Air Force

It should be noted that there has not been word yet on whether India will move to CSP (Block VI) in due course or it the RAAF will be retaining ASRAAM in service with the withdrawal of the 'Classic' Hornet fleet. ASRAAM is compatible with F-35A, the RAAF purchases of AIM-9X have not been enormous to date and the RAAF did like ASRAAM a lot...in addition the Australian ASRAAM stockpile will have a very decent number of years left on its shelf life. The Australian's seem to retain missiles in stock for a quite considerable time, in fact 9L and M are still in abundance in RAAF service. The only potential second hand purchaser of their stockpile would be India as the UK, and I suspect Qatar, will be CSP only. Any such sale would require US approval as well as the seeker head and other items are covered by ITAR.

[Phil R]

Putting this under MBDA as it mainly concerns their work.

From the latest edition of DSTL's inhouse magazine Desider

https://des.mod.uk/desider-magazine/

Storm Shadow (Spear 4 CSP Mid-Life Upgrade)

Summer 2021 - 4 Firings of upgraded missiles at White Sands, in the US, from RAF Typhoon. Done during Operational Evaluation (OpEval), some under GPS denied conditions.

Martlet (LMM) (a Thales product)

October 2021 - First operational firings, by an operational rather than test aircraft, of Martlet from a Wildcat on CSG21. It was an 815 Sqn Wildcat against a floating target (probably killer tomato).

CAMM

Land Ceptor - June 2021, 3 successful firings at White Sands.

Sea Ceptor - HMS Portland fired Sea Ceptor in a trial against a Fast Inshore Attack Craft. First trial that I am aware of against a surface target.

Asraam Block VI (sometimes called CSP)

October 2021 - New Asraam came closer to IOC with Typhoon with 6 firings over the Hebrides, should arrive on Typhoon next year, and should be the most capable WVR missile around.

Brimstone 3A

3 launches at Vidsel in Sweden. All Surface to Surface against static and moving targets using different modes. Brimstone 3A is the new production standard, not sure if this is too early to include the recently contracted Brimstone 3B enhancements.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... re-upgrade

Some progress being delivered...no mention of Meteor/JNAAM, Spear or Spear-EW however...all 3 programmes have gone a little quiet.

[Timmymagic]

Another update....Oman is getting ASRAAM (presumably Blk.VI, the new version with CAMM improvements and UK seeker). Don't know how I missed it...but it was in the same BAE annual report as the order for Qatar...

CAMM/CAMM-ER customers to date: CAMM in Blue, CAMM-ER in Red, Both in Green)
Royal Navy
British Army (Cmdr 7 AD recently confirmed CAMM-ER is planned)
Royal New Zealand Navy
Chilean Navy
Brazilian Navy
Italian Navy
Italian Air Force
Italian Army
Royal Canadian Navy
Pakistan Navy
Polish Army

Think its likely that both the Royal Navy and Poland will go Green in due course. It would make sense with the programmes they have underway.

ASRAAM Customers to date: (Legacy Asraam in Blue, Asraam Block 6 in Red)
Royal Air Force (Block 6 will completely replace legacy Asraam from 2022 onwards)
Royal Australian Air Force (Questions remain about Asraam's future in RAAF service)
Indian Air Force (Unclear if Block 6 is part of the deal)
Qatar Emiri Air Force (Likely Asraam Block 6 only when delivered).
Royal Air Force of Oman (Likely Asraam Block 6 only when delivered).

If I had to bet on the next customer it would be Saudi Arabia..now that Block 6 removes ITAR issues from sale.

[Phil R]

Made this and posted it elsewhere, so figured it would be a good idea to stick it here..