EU Combined Military Thread

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
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xav
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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

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How the Coronavirus is Impacting Europe’s Main Naval Shipbuilders ?
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With Europe now at the epicenter of the Coronavirus crisis (according to the World Health Organization), here is an overview of the impact Covid19 has on the main naval shipbuilders of the "old continent".
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... pbuilders/

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xav
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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

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EDA Launches ‘PILUM’ Research Study on Electromagnetic Railguns
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The European Defense Agency (EDA) and the French-German Research Institute of Saint-Louis (ISL) have just launched a research study on electromagnetic railguns in which 5 European countries are taking part. The study has been dubbed 'PILUM'.
...
ISL is the leading Research institute in Europe in the domain of electromagnetic railguns. Initiated and lead by ISL, a consortium of several European partners (France, Germany, Poland, Italy and Belgium) has been formed named PILUM (Projectiles for Increased Long-range effects Using Electro-Magnetic railgun)
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -railguns/

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by Caribbean »

RAFIRA sounds like a different approach to most of these projects
RAFIRA is a railgun (25 mm2 caliber) with which a salvo up to five shots can be launched at extremely high fire rates. In single shot mode, RAFIRA can accelerate projectiles in the mass range of 100 grams to velocities of more than 2400 m/s corresponding to acceleration levels of more than 100 000 g. This launcher is used to investigate the potential use of railgun technology for anti-ship missile scenarios. Operational research analysis has led to the conclusion that fire rates of over 50 Hz are necessary to defend against hypersonic Missiles.
Most other projects seem to concentrate on directed energy weapons for this application, with EM weapons focussing more on long-range anti-ship capabilities (i.e. replacing the anti-ship missile, rather than defending against them). It'll be interesting to see what comes of combining the two technologies
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

J. Tattersall

Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by J. Tattersall »

Whatever happened to the EU's permanent Operational HQ, i.e. its PJHQ equivalent? Wasn't that dream supposed to have been implemented as soon as the UK voted leave? I just haven't heard of it since.

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Caribbean wrote:fire rates of over 50 Hz are necessary to defend against hypersonic Missiles

Is that Hertz; and what does it mean in this context? Fire 50 cycles as in electric current... 3000 per minute (if such sustained fire is possible)?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by Caribbean »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:.. 3000 per minute
That's how I read it. 3000 rounds/ minute (or in this case, 3000 "blunt objects" since kinetic energy is the significant factor here). Presumably each burst will be timed in milliseconds! According to my handy online calculator, that's 288 Kjoules per projectile (or, according to my very dodgy maths, around the same muzzle energy as a 32-lb cannon ball), which seems quite good for a 100g projectile (or to put it another way, a ten millisecond burst (30 rounds) is around the same energy as a broadside from a sailing frigate)

I think lockdown is finally getting to me :crazy: . Time to go and sit in the garden
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Caribbean wrote:, a ten millisecond burst (30 rounds) is around the same energy as a broadside from a sailing frigate)
I am writing from my garden - no screen reflection this late in the day - and I say: let's go and buy some!
- no more breaking of windows by throwing gold guineas at them (in OpFor strategic places... as fortifications are now few and far in between)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by muttbutt »

New projects green lit a few days back, everything from railguns, to UGV's to cyberwarfare to a stealthy tactical UAV and more.
I'm going to break up the names and short summaries for each project over a few posts. There is a list of participating countries in each PDF if you want to check up on who's doing what.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/publications/ ... s-calls_en


DECISMAR

The objective of the DECISMAR project is to develop a decision support toolbox (DSTx), implemented as a cyber-secured and
future-proofed integrated IT environment. The DSTx will provide a dynamic and interactive approach for conducting feasibility
studies which aim to support the upgrade of maritime surveillance under the scope of both current and future defined High-Level
Operational Requirements (HLORs) of the PESCO Project Upgrade of Maritime Surveillance.

DRONEDGE

The DRONEDGE E project proposes to transfer an existing 3D swarm simulator to the real world implemented on actual fixed wing
drones. DRONEDGE E will study the feasibility of a novel architecture, which can be applied to unmanned air systems as well as
hybrid systems.

ECYSAP

The main objective of the ECYSAP project is to develop and implement of innovative theoretical foundations, methods, research prototypes
and their integration towards providing a European operational platform for enabling real-time Cyber Situational Awareness with rapid
response defensive capabilities and decision-making support for military end-users.
An integrated and modular Cyber Situational Awareness (CSA) picture for National/European security purposes and military expeditionary
operations will be developed, which shall become a real time defensive system capable of cyber response, automated and deployable in
the same area of operations (National/European) interconnected between envisaged and identified intelligent nodes.

ESC2

The proposal covers the development of the advanced European Strategic Command and Control (C2) system, which will contribute
to the achievement of the EU new level of ambition. The foreseen activities include a feasibility study and a system design. They
will provide an integrated set of solutions, exploiting the emerging technologies in key domains such as the Information Technology
and Communication Systems. The project aims at delivering a C2 system fully interoperable with the Command and Control
structures / systems from EU, Member States, NATO, and civilian agencies.

EUDAAS

The EUDAAS project will develop and validate a 100% European Detect And Avoid (DAA) solution for safe insertion of large military
Remotely-Piloted Air Systems (RPAS) in the European air traffic so that RPAS can operate along with other manned and unmanned
aircrafts. EUDAAS will also increase the maturity of non-cooperative sensors, to enable the use of RPAS in a much wider and flexibl
way than currently possible.
The project addresses the current user needs by focusing on specific use cases such as the European MALE RPAS.


FITS4TOP

The project is aiming at delivering a European wide solution that is an Integrated Training System (with an emphasis on Live,
Virtual, Constructive and the Interactive Multimedia Instruction), responding to Initial Common Requirements of member states
supporting the project and adaptable to future customers’ needs. The solution will be able to integrate different operational
scenarios involving air, ground and maritime forces.
The consortium will deliver a study on the upgrade of the entire training path and related assets in line with the evolution of
military pilots training concepts and exploiting the use of new technologies (e.g. Embedded Simulation, Augmented Reality). It will
also provide a study on the training aircraft with a Light Combat Capabilities as secondary role.

GEODE

GEODE will prototype, test and qualify multiple Galileo PRS enabled Positioning, Navigation and Timing( PNT) navigation solutions for
defence specific requirements and applications (7 PRS Security Modules, 9 PRS receivers, 4 GPS/Galileo PRS compatible Controlled
Radiation Pattern Antennas) and a European PNT test & Qualification Facility. A PRS infrastructure will also be developed to ensure
the availability of the security assets necessary for the operational testing of the receivers. Military operational field-testing will be
organised on Naval and Land platforms, RPAS, Timing and Synchronisation system in multiple Member States.

iMUGS

The project will develop a modular and scalable architecture for hybrid manned-unmanned systems in order to address a large
range of missions and to enable easy update or modification of assets and functionalities within the system: aerial and ground
platforms, command, control and communication equipment, sensors, payloads and algorithms. For demonstrating the features of
the project, the prototype will be based on an existing unmanned ground vehicle and a specific list of payloads.

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by muttbutt »

/2

LOTUS

The LOTUS project will address feasibility, detailed design, prototyping and testing of a low-observable, airworthy and interoperable
tactical RPAS system, targeted at ISR missions. The development will include: a mothership TRPAS equipped with ISR sensors,
designed for low observability and high endurance, incorporating a self-protection system against enemy threats; a system of
tube-launched, foldable-wing drones, deployable from the mothership, while this later remains at a safe distance; on-board sensor
data processing capabilities for target detection, recognition, identification and classification; and a ground station.

lynkEUS

The project aims to define a preliminary concept of operations for a Beyond Line Of Sight (BLOS) European capability and
demonstrate it through a full scale firing campaign. The project consists of a land missile system, a turret system to support and
set up the missile using an UAV for target designation, a land platform, and an UAV providing a cyber-secured target location.

OPTISSE

The project OPTISSE will perform a feasibility study and a preliminary design of innovative technologies for a cost-effective high
performance
Earth Observation payload for small satellites. The technologies include a multispectral and miniaturised optical
imager with very high resolution, image processing algorithms, a satellite subsystem for features tracking and a satellite subsystem
for high-rate data transmission.

PANDORA

The PANDORA project aims at contributing to EU cyber defence capacity building, by designing and implementing an open technical
solution for real-time threat hunting and incident response, focusing on endpoint protection, as well as information sharing. The
PANDORA system aims also to promptly detect and classify known and unknown threats, enforce policies on-the-fly to counter
these threats, and also exchange threat intelligence information with third parties, at both national and international level. The
technical solution developed in PANDORA will be integrated and assessed in a pre-operational environment against two relevant
use cases: warship security and military sensor network security.

PEONEER

PEONEER addresses feasibility studies, design, prototype and testing of a software platform, which will implement the Activity Based
Intelligence (ABI) concept to complement the geo spatial activities by integrating data from multiple sources to discover relevant
patterns, determine and identify changes, and characterize those patterns to drive collection and create decision advantage. The
software platform will support geo-intelligence analysts in the following tasks: definition of suitable satellite and non-satellite data
collection strategy to carry out ABI tasks; automatic extraction and recognition of features, entities and motion information through
artificial intelligence techniques; definition of workflows for ABI for sea and land applications to improve decision making processes.

REACT:

The project aims at providing a design for Air Electronic Attack Capability (AEAC) and allowing European Union air forces to
conduct operations in a contested anti-access/area denial (A2/AD) environment responding to low-frequency radars challenges and
countering new sophisticated threats in Electromagnetic Spectrum of Operations. Ultimately this capability will be developed in
form of POD’s (mainly for ESCORT operations) and on board of unmanned combat aerial vehicles (mainly for stand-in operations).


SEA DEFENCE:

SEA Defence project will conduct a feasibility study in order to prepare a roadmap of technologies to be included in next generation
of naval platforms and pursued in further European development programs. The study will address de following issues: lower
detectability; higher survivability against modern surface and subsurface threats including against high-speed threats and
swarming threats; reduction of ship motions; improved electric power generation and storage; capability to operate in extreme
climates; topside; and increased autonomy and automation. For each area, the state of the art will be mapped and the impact of
ship integration on capabilities, budget and interfaces will be assessed. Recommendations will be provided to realize innovations
ready for the next generation naval platforms from their design or during their lifetime.


SMOTANET:

The objectives of the proposed action is to design a modular, adaptive and secure tactical network. To achieve this, the
SMOTANET project will:
- Design tactical devices that integrate three different technologies, namely, Software Defined Radio (SDR), Mobile Ad-hoc
Networks (MANET) and Software Defined Networks (SDN).
- Develop testbeds based on the aforementioned devices that will be used to test and evaluate operational scenarios and the
corresponding technical solutions according to well defined metrics.
The testbeds will realize representative tactical scenarios, they will implement controller-to-controller, controller-to-switch,
and switch-to-switch links and will ultimately unite them in a holistic network-wide network control architecture managed
by SDN controllers.
The Studies will deliver operational scenarios and technical requirements in cooperation with the Greek and Cyprus MoDs. The
Design Activities will deliver the design specifications of the controller and the switch as well as a testbed that can evaluate
the performance of relative networks under realistic conditions.
Click to expand...


AIDED:

This project is about the use of Artificial Intelligence for the detection of explosive devices. The armed
conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria have seen a dramatic rise in the use of Improvised Explosive
Devices (IEDs) and landmines by adversaries. In operations in those countries, 50% of soldier deaths
in action are directly related to IEDs. AIDED will use a set of state of the art Artificial Intelligence (AI)
algorithms able to identify unconventional (IEDs) and conventional (buried mines) explosive devices,
and autonomously plan offline and run-time missions plans. It will also provide positioning, navigation
and mapping to control a fleet of robots that cooperate quickly to identify a safe passage in a high
risk area

.


ARTUS:

ARTUS will demonstrate the feasibility of an intelligent small swarm of (3 to 12) Unmanned Ground
Vehicles (UGV) that will closely follow a platoon in various terrains. It will be capable to dynamically
react to changing mission scenarios on its path. The swarm greatly changes the soldiers’ capacity as it
carries major logistical supply of the troops, including nutrition, ammunition and special gear, through
harsh environments, including densely wooded or sloped areas. The swarm of UGVs could also carry
wounded soldiers.


METAMASK:

Development and demonstration of metamaterials for electromagnetic camouflage of military
equipment. The METAMASK project aims to develop an experimental demonstrator of a new
technology for radar camouflage and/or illusion, which is based on a new type of adaptive space-time
modulated, active metasurface.

muttbutt
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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by muttbutt »

/3 last batch


OPTIMISE:

This project is about autonomous positioning, navigation and timing and proposes a novel architecture
to fuse data from different sensors and signals. The project should improve positioning, navigation
and timing in areas without access to Global Navigation Satellite Systems (GNSS).


PILUM:

Considering trends for enhanced precision and range of ammunition while seeking affordabl
costs, the electromagnetic railgun (EMRG) is a disruptive technology to launch projectiles over
extremely long distance (more than 200 km) and a potential operational game-changer, thanks to
electromagnetic acceleration instead of chemical propellants. The project lays the foundation for
achieving a full-scale demonstrator by 2028.


PRIVILEGE:

AI technologies for encryption of confidential military data. The goal of PRIVILEGE is to mix AI
technologies with private-preserving tools such as Homomorphic Encryption (HE), Verifiable computing
and Private Aggregation of Teacher Ensembles (PATE) approaches, in order to be able to exploit
confidential military and defensive data all along the life-cycle of AI methods, with a focus on the
learning step.


QUANTAQUEST:

In the future, quantum radars will make stealth aircrafts obsolete, quantum superconducting
magnetometers will detect submarines and quantum computer cryptanalysis will break conventional
codes. The project will develop quantum sensing for navigation and timing without relying on
Global Navigation Satellite Systems and quantum communication to secure Command, Control,
Communications, Computers, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (C4ISR).


SPINAR:

Combination of AI and nanotechnology to process radio frequency signals (from radar) to identify the
emitter of the signal with very low power consumption and very high efficiency. In SPINAR, an artificia
neural network will be implemented directly in hardware, with spin-based nanodevices as neurons
and synapses.

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by SKB »

Image
(Wikipedia)
You may be surprised to learn that Germany built and launched an aircraft carrier, called the Graf Zeppelin....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_ai ... f_Zeppelin

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by Tempest414 »

arfah wrote:.....................
And you forgot some people say nothing and winge to much

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by Pseudo »

Ron5 wrote:
Pseudo wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Why would Germany want a carrier? Never really had one before.
I don't think that it's about Germany wanting an aircraft carrier, I think that it's about creating a capability that would necessitate greater integration of EU member state navies.
I think it's more about France trying to get Germany to spend more defense money in France.
Really? IIRC, it was a German politician who originally floated the idea about a year ago. In fact, as far as I can tell pretty much all the running for this idea has been done by Germany and more specifically the CDU leadership. I think that the single biggest problem with the idea is that there isn't a common EU strategic policy so it's difficult to see it actually getting used for anything beyond showing the flag.
Jake1992 wrote:IMO it’s a bit of both, Macron is a supporter of further intergration a joint EU carrier would be a starting point in intergrating defence across the board.

In the eyes of Macron this could be a win win, it gets other nations like Germany to spend more, it’s a strong starting point for EU defence intergration and it’ll also allow France to claim they have 2 carriers as they will most likely be the leak when the joint one is in use.
If there were staggeringly big steps made toward strategic policy integration in the next few years then I could maybe see this direction being taken towards the end of the decade when the French government will have to make decisions about replacing the CdG. A common EU carrier programme would also give a bit more justification for a maritime variant of FCAS. But, really unless there's a lot of movement toward integrating the foreign and defence policies of the EU member states or at least a core group of EU member states then I don't think that the idea has much mileage in it.

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by Ron5 »

SKB wrote:Image
(Wikipedia)
You may be surprised to learn that Germany did build and launch an aircraft carrier....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_ai ... f_Zeppelin
I don't know who you are talking to but that's pretty common knowledge, and launch is about as far as it got. Those drawings are someone's best guess as to what it might look like if finished.

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by Jake1992 »

Pseudo wrote:
Ron5 wrote:
Pseudo wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Why would Germany want a carrier? Never really had one before.
I don't think that it's about Germany wanting an aircraft carrier, I think that it's about creating a capability that would necessitate greater integration of EU member state navies.
I think it's more about France trying to get Germany to spend more defense money in France.
Really? IIRC, it was a German politician who originally floated the idea about a year ago. In fact, as far as I can tell pretty much all the running for this idea has been done by Germany and more specifically the CDU leadership. I think that the single biggest problem with the idea is that there isn't a common EU strategic policy so it's difficult to see it actually getting used for anything beyond showing the flag.
Jake1992 wrote:IMO it’s a bit of both, Macron is a supporter of further intergration a joint EU carrier would be a starting point in intergrating defence across the board.

In the eyes of Macron this could be a win win, it gets other nations like Germany to spend more, it’s a strong starting point for EU defence intergration and it’ll also allow France to claim they have 2 carriers as they will most likely be the leak when the joint one is in use.
If there were staggeringly big steps made toward strategic policy integration in the next few years then I could maybe see this direction being taken towards the end of the decade when the French government will have to make decisions about replacing the CdG. A common EU carrier programme would also give a bit more justification for a maritime variant of FCAS. But, really unless there's a lot of movement toward integrating the foreign and defence policies of the EU member states or at least a core group of EU member states then I don't think that the idea has much mileage in it.
COVID 19 is already being used to call for deeper intergration in the areas of mutual debt and fiscal policy.
When the above is taken in to account along with the likes of Junkers final speech calling for defence intergration and now the German CDU ( who we know really run the EU ) then in 10 years we could see this well on it way.
I can see it being put forward in a way that depicts it in the same light as things like the joint NATO tanker and AEW fleets.

This above all depends though if the EU last that long and IMO that all depends on how the UK do out side of it over the coming years.

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by Ron5 »

Pseudo wrote: for a maritime variant of FCAS
I'm curious how the Germans regard paying their share of the extra costs of developing the carrier capability, and accepting the associated stealth, weight, & drag compromises. A double whammy - costs more and delivers less.

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by serge750 »

I would of thought it's a dead cert that the FCAS would be carrier capable as the French will defo need something to replace their navy rafaels ? i believe the airforce rafaels are not carrier capable so seperate naval + airforce versions could work, but as said would cost more, but you never know... :crazy

In regards to the french carrier, as they would prefer a CVN, would other EU countrys be ok with nuclear power ( seem to remember japan & Australia not liking visits from nuke powered carriers years ago ? ) or could there be a conventional powered design if a EU carrier came to be?

would be quite good to see the germans do carrier aviation ? pay for a EU carrier :lol: would certainly put the defence spending up to the nato 2% !!! :lol:

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by inch »

Aye get them Germans to put their hands in their pockets and stop freeloading of USA/ UK / France etc for their defence ,like we not going to want to trade deal with you UK after Brexit but I think we should stay close to UK on defence so they can still defend us ,yeah right jog on Germany

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by Pseudo »

Ron5 wrote:
Pseudo wrote: for a maritime variant of FCAS
I'm curious how the Germans regard paying their share of the extra costs of developing the carrier capability, and accepting the associated stealth, weight, & drag compromises. A double whammy - costs more and delivers less.
That's really the point that I'm making. An EU aircraft carrier programme or even just a Franco-German one should make the additional costs of a naval FCAS variant more palatable to the German public. Though given the German attitude to military intervention I'm not sure that there'd be an awful lot of public support for German involvement in an aircraft carrier programme.

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by Ron5 »

Sorry a tad slow picking up on your point there.

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by Lord Jim »

FCAS should be just one variant the naval one. Remember when the F/A-18 was launched, McDonald Douglas had the rights to the naval variant and Northrop has them for the lighter land based variant called the Cobra I believe. The former had quite a bit of success but the latter never got beyond the prototype stage and had no takers despite being cheaper, able to carry more and a greater range. It was offered to both Australia and Canada but both chose the naval hornet even when McD offered to produce a lightens version lacking many of the carrier specific components again making it lighter etc. The F-35 and even the Rafale with their specific versions have set a bad precedence.

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by seaspear »

I believe the Cobra was some years earlier than the Hornet the test flights mentioned here are in 1973 the Hornet acquired by the R.A.A.F was in 1983
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YF-17

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by Timmymagic »

seaspear wrote:I believe the Cobra was some years earlier than the Hornet the test flights mentioned here are in 1973 the Hornet acquired by the R.A.A.F was in 1983
Thats correct the YF-17 was little more than a test bed. F/A-18 was the finished article. The reason why none of the land based F/A-18 users bought the F-18L was the development cost which they would have had to bear, add in the fact that they would have then been out of the USN/USMC upgrade path it has to be said that they made the right decision.

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by SW1 »

YF-17 lost out in competition to the F16
In the lightweight fighter contest. The US navy then took it on mainly around a preference for a twin engine aircraft and developed into what became f18.

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Re: EU Combined Military thread.

Post by Lord Jim »

AS I said when the USN were looking for a cheaper alternative to the F-14 and a plane to replace the A-7, McDonald Douglas looked at the Northrop YF-17 and struck a deal where they would co-develop the F/A-18 with McDonald Douglas being responsible to the naval variant for the USN and Northrop responsible for the land based version.

My point was however that rather than develop multiple variants of the FCAS, I think they should concentrate on just one, the carrier capable one. It is much easier to optimise a naval platform for solely land based operations if say Germany wishes to remove some of the carrier specific equipment, like the catapult launching gear, than it is to go the other way. Just look at the USAF version of the F-4B, the F-4C and then the more developed F-4D culminating in the F-4E. You also spread the development costs over far more airframes rather than just a limited number for the French Navy.

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