BAE Systems plc

Contains threads on equipment developed by the UK defence and aerospace industry, but not in service with the British Armed Forces.

Should BAE be nationalised by the UK?

Please note that results are sorted by decreasing number of votes received.

None of it
23
41%
All of it
16
29%
Parts of it
14
25%
Don't care
3
5%
 
Total votes: 56

dmereifield
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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by dmereifield »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuter ... stems.html

Contract signed with Qatar 24 Typhoons, £5 billion. No Hawks yet though...an extra £1 billion for Meteor, Brimstone and Paveway IV too...

Defiance
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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by Defiance »

I personally didn’t see it coming off so I’m extraordinarily happy to be prven wrong.

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by dmereifield »

Me neither, bit as sea_eagle posted in the Qatar thread:

"BAE say that the contract is subject to financing conditions and receipt of the first payment, which is expected to be fulfilled no later than mid-2018."

So perhaps we should should until the first payment before celebrating.

Either way, disappointing to see that no Hawks were included in the deal. The order for the munitions is a nice bonus though.

The delivery schedule seems a bit late through - apparently starting in late 2022. Does this mean BAE will be slowing down the production line again, or that they are anticipating another sale soon to keep things ticking over until 2022?

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by bobp »

As I understand it Bae will still lose 2000 jobs around the country. This order will just keep the Typhoon line ticking over if it happens.

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by dmereifield »

bobp wrote:As I understand it Bae will still lose 2000 jobs around the country. This order will just keep the Typhoon line ticking over if it happens.
Sadly this won't save any of those jobs. However, I'm curious as to how BAE will keep the production line going until late 2022. According to Defiance (post up thread) and several public sources, the current order book and production rate keeps the line going until 2019-2020. So what happens between 2020 and late 2022? Can the production rate be slowed further, or are BAE expecting another order to materialise for production and deliveries during this 2-3 year period?

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by Defiance »

dmereifield wrote:Sadly this won't save any of those jobs. However, I'm curious as to how BAE will keep the production line going until late 2022. According to Defiance (post up thread) and several public sources, the current order book and production rate keeps the line going until 2019-2020. So what happens between 2020 and late 2022? Can the production rate be slowed further, or are BAE expecting another order to materialise for production and deliveries during this 2-3 year period?
Late 2022 is when aircraft are scheduled to be delivered, 24 aircraft would probably get you another 24 months of production. That'd shunt the production line out to 2021/2022 as the final cut-off point, I suspect aircraft can be spat out of the production line faster than the Qatari's could accept them (the magnitude of their fleet expansion is unbelievable).

As for Hawks, they're still being persued. If a win for Hawk is managed to be secured this could be big, I don't recall any AJT's being linked with the F-15/Rafale bids, so could a big number of Hawks be on the horizon to train their pilots to operate 100+ aircraft? (currently operate ~a dozen Mirages?). It could be big.

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by dmereifield »

Defiance wrote:
dmereifield wrote:Sadly this won't save any of those jobs. However, I'm curious as to how BAE will keep the production line going until late 2022. According to Defiance (post up thread) and several public sources, the current order book and production rate keeps the line going until 2019-2020. So what happens between 2020 and late 2022? Can the production rate be slowed further, or are BAE expecting another order to materialise for production and deliveries during this 2-3 year period?
Late 2022 is when aircraft are scheduled to be delivered, 24 aircraft would probably get you another 24 months of production. That'd shunt the production line out to 2021/2022 as the final cut-off point, I suspect aircraft can be spat out of the production line faster than the Qatari's could accept them (the magnitude of their fleet expansion is unbelievable).

As for Hawks, they're still being persued. If a win for Hawk is managed to be secured this could be big, I don't recall any AJT's being linked with the F-15/Rafale bids, so could a big number of Hawks be on the horizon to train their pilots to operate 100+ aircraft? (currently operate ~a dozen Mirages?). It could be big.
Ah, I see, so completion of delivery is late 2022 not commencement of delivery? Interesting point on the Hawks, given that the Typhoon contract includes training this would, presumably, further increase the likely hood of a Hawk order. Do you know how many (Hawks or other jet trainer aircraft) they might be looking for?

Perhaps to curry favour with another country, they may go with something else (e.g. M-346?).

Whatever they do, I guess they need to secure them quick to build up their capacity for early 2020's....

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by Smokey »

If they haven’t ordered jet trainers then there is a possibility of contractual training in another country...

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by Defiance »

dmereifield wrote:Ah, I see, so completion of delivery is late 2022 not commencement of delivery? Interesting point on the Hawks, given that the Typhoon contract includes training this would, presumably, further increase the likely hood of a Hawk order. Do you know how many (Hawks or other jet trainer aircraft) they might be looking for?
No, my apologies, it is indeed the commencement. Considering the job losses and the projected rate we have a bizarre scenario where all the jets might be finished at/around the start of delivery. It's all a big balancing act (and schedule shenanigans) and there's not a lot of visibility on the production schedule, but it feels like when Qatar start accepting aircraft we will be well ahead in terms of production. Kind of like the situation we're seeing with Oman.

Last mention of it was 6 which (if they are interested in a vehicle of this class - the intent to buy Hawk was stated in this contract) is horrendously low if they actually want to be able to sustain a 100 jet force. The RAAF is a ~100 jet force from memory and they've got ~30 Hawks in service, however the Qataris will have 3 different training pipelines to take into account.
dmereifield wrote:Perhaps to curry favour with another country, they may go with something else (e.g. M-346?).

Whatever they do, I guess they need to secure them quick to build up their capacity for early 2020's....
Likely. I'm not sure on the geopol relationship between Qatar and Italy so I couldn't comment if that's a relationship they particularly want to strengthen (as all of these jet buys have been primarily politics). They need it rapidly, so as Smokey's said below they could contract it out. I expect you'll probably see Qatari pilots on RAF courses, part of the news releases was the announcement of a joint squadron to protect the World Cup in 2022 so they'll still be a bit shakey (it appears) even then.

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by Meriv9 »

About political relationship Quatar has bough from us its fleet for 4 billions.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf ... SKBN1AI1VS

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by dmereifield »

Meriv9 wrote:About political relationship Quatar has bough from us its fleet for 4 billions.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf ... SKBN1AI1VS
Aha so that's the US, UK, Italy and France "in the bag", do they need anyone else?

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

Successful first flight trial completion of unmanned aerial vehicle, MAGMA.

Image
Together with The University of Manchester, we have successfully completed the first phase of flight trials with MAGMA – a small scale unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), which will use a unique blown-air system to manoeuvre the aircraft - paving the way for future stealthier aircraft designs.
The new concept for aircraft control removes the conventional need for complex, mechanical moving parts used to move flaps to control the aircraft during flight. This could give greater control as well as reduce weight and maintenance costs, allowing for lighter, stealthier, faster and more efficient military and civil aircraft in the future.
Read More: http://www.baesystems.com/en/article/fi ... ght-trials


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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by bobp »

Wow nice to see Bae are still in the design business.

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by Smokey »

CTA40 shown off at Fort Benning, GA.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... -vehicles/

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by SKB »


(BAE Systems) Published on 18th April 2018
An F-35 airframe is on its way back to the United States having been ‘flown’ for 24,000 hours in our unique structural testing rig to prove its safety, strength and durability.

(BAE Systems) Published on 24 Apr 2018
Our test pilot, Peter “Wizzer” Wilson, recently completed the final sortie of the initial design and development test flight programme on F-35.

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by dmereifield »

https://www.sharesmagazine.co.uk/news/m ... vy-in-2020

It seems BAE are getting close to formalising the contract with Qatar, with the first payment suggested to be made in Q3 of 2018. It seems the deal will include 9 Hawks as well as the 24 Typhoons. I've always been slightly sceptical about this given Qatar's other recent fighter aircraft deals and have been waiting to see the cash before finally celebrating.

I've read elsewhere that the Typhoon production line is now secure until 2026. Does anyone have anything that would corroborate or refute this?

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by Defiance »

dmereifield wrote:https://www.sharesmagazine.co.uk/news/m ... vy-in-2020

It seems BAE are getting close to formalising the contract with Qatar, with the first payment suggested to be made in Q3 of 2018. It seems the deal will include 9 Hawks as well as the 24 Typhoons. I've always been slightly sceptical about this given Qatar's other recent fighter aircraft deals and have been waiting to see the cash before finally celebrating.

I've read elsewhere that the Typhoon production line is now secure until 2026. Does anyone have anything that would corroborate or refute this?
That's a direct quote from Chris Boardman I think (senior BAE exec) when the deal was announced

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by dmereifield »

Defiance wrote:
dmereifield wrote:https://www.sharesmagazine.co.uk/news/m ... vy-in-2020

It seems BAE are getting close to formalising the contract with Qatar, with the first payment suggested to be made in Q3 of 2018. It seems the deal will include 9 Hawks as well as the 24 Typhoons. I've always been slightly sceptical about this given Qatar's other recent fighter aircraft deals and have been waiting to see the cash before finally celebrating.

I've read elsewhere that the Typhoon production line is now secure until 2026. Does anyone have anything that would corroborate or refute this?
That's a direct quote from Chris Boardman I think (senior BAE exec) when the deal was announced
Great, thanks. Plenty of time to drum up new orders then. Is there any such info regarding the Hawk production line?

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Ours and the one in India, RE:
info regarding the Hawk production line?

are competing and other than the CAS optimised version they came out with (and no one bought) there seems to be very little happening in the way of upgrades (or anything).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by dmereifield »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Ours and the one in India, RE:
info regarding the Hawk production line?

are competing and other than the CAS optimised version they came out with (and no one bought) there seems to be very little happening in the way of upgrades (or anything).
Is the Indian one active? I thought it was just for the Indian aircraft and now that they didn't select it I assumed it would be wound down. Or, are the producing Hawks for export? If so, for who?

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

They've got loads, and fairly new planes, too.

The drivers for an additional deal of 20 were different (what dropping it does, perhaps someone can advise?):

"On the newly-developed Hawk India jet showcased by HAL recently, sources said there was not much logic in going in for upgrade of IAF fleet of Hawk planes which have been inducted not long back. "The last of the Hawks were inducted only around three years ago in the force and the upgrades are not required at this moment," the sources said.

The IAF had moved the proposal to buy these 20 planes from a British firm during the UPA regime as it wanted to replace the Kiran Mk 2 planes with the Hawk Advanced Jet Training jets to be equipped with smoking pots to fly with the Surya Kiran Aerobatic Team (SKAT)."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by SKB »


(Forces TV) 13 August 2018
A new smart helmet known as 'the world’s most advanced' is being developed by BAE Systems. With head-tracking technology and integrated night vision camera, the Striker II aims to help pilots access more information than ever.

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by Lord Jim »

Will the RAF be using this helmet on the F-35 as well as the Typhoon?

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by RetroSicotte »

Lord Jim wrote:Will the RAF be using this helmet on the F-35 as well as the Typhoon?
Nope, F-35's helmet is bespoke to the aircraft.

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Re: BAE Systems plc

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

As for " F-35's helmet is bespoke to the aircraft" the new one (Israeli design) has been selected, but don't know if it has been ordered (and how its sits relative to all various Block 4 things)

Lockheed Martin goes with Elbit's pilot helmet for F-35 jets - Israel ...
http://www.israelhayom.com/.../lockheed ... ts-pilot-h...

23 jul. 2017 - The Israel Air Force will receive its first F-35 jets in the second half of 2016. ... The F-35s "Helmet Mounted Display Systems"
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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