National Shipbuilding Strategy

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bobp
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Re: NSS (National Shipbuilding Strategy)

Post by bobp »

We appear to have two National Shipbuilding Strategy Threads the other coming under UK Defence Aerospace

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: NSS (National Shipbuilding Strategy)

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Yes, didnt realise... hopefully they can be merged in time for the publishing of NSS
- that gives several months, then?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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GibMariner
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Re: NSS (National Shipbuilding Strategy)

Post by GibMariner »

BBC saying NSS to be published today: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38138874

bobp
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Re: NSS (National Shipbuilding Strategy)

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This thread appears to be duplicated from Defence Aerospace Industry.

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GibMariner
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Re: NSS (National Shipbuilding Strategy)

Post by GibMariner »

Link to the National Shipbuilding Strategy: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ent-report


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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: NSS (National Shipbuilding Strategy)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

If one focusses on what recommendations 25 &26 (in the covering letter) say,
"bull's eye" is an expression that comes to mind.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Gabriele
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by Gabriele »

The MOD Sponsor should establish a transparent Master Plan for naval shipbuilding that lays out Defence’s procurement plans for each series of naval ships over the next 30 years.
Single, most important reccomendation in the thing, as far as i've read. Fundamental to any attempt to design a path for the future for the shipyards, as well as incredibly important to ensure that the successive ship programmes make sense in how they interact with each other.

So probably it is just going to be blissfully ignored.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: NSS (National Shipbuilding Strategy)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Not at all!

Surely the entries can be dove tailed by using the date & time stamps?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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RichardIC
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Re: NSS (National Shipbuilding Strategy)

Post by RichardIC »

The Armchair Soldier wrote:Is anyone opposed to this thread being merged with the other one?
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=654
I'd welcome it


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GibMariner
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by GibMariner »

Parker Review: Blueprint for a strong naval shipbuilding sector
Sir John Parker’s Independent Report into naval shipbuilding published today (29 November) sets out far-reaching recommendations to transform the United Kingdom’s shipbuilding industry and boost the prosperity of shipyards and supply chains across the country.

Based on extensive consultation with government, industry, and trades unions, it will inform the government’s National Shipbuilding Strategy to be published in the spring.

Sir John’s report is a fundamental reappraisal of how we undertake naval shipbuilding in the UK with the aim of placing it on a sustainable long-term footing. It enables the foundations to be laid for a modern, efficient, and competitive sector capable of meeting the country’s future defence and security needs.

The report identifies key areas where government and industry must invest in order for UK shipbuilding to thrive:

modern digital engineering
industrial innovation
competitiveness
focus on apprenticeships and jobs
export-focus
Sir John Parker said:

Should Government, Industry and the Trade Unions rise to the challenges I have set, I believe we can establish a new era of collaboration and success across the ‘Total Enterprise’.

It will create savings over the coming years for MOD, renew the Royal Navy fleet, position the UK for new export opportunities and create regional prosperity and highly skilled jobs across the UK in the Shipyards and supply chain.

One of the opportunities that Sir John identifies is the way Scotland’s cutting edge technology can allow for Modular Construction, in which ship components are produced across the UK before being assembled at a central Hub. The build of the Royal Navy’s largest ever warships, the Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers, has already demonstrated the success of such an approach, with multiple shipyards and hundreds of companies across the UK working together and benefiting from the aircraft carrier build.

Welcoming the report on behalf of the government, Defence Secretary Sir Michael Fallon said:

I would like to thank Sir John for providing an ambitious vision of naval shipbuilding in the UK based on a new era of cooperation as part of our modern industrial strategy.

This report will inform our National Shipbuilding Strategy to match the needs of the Royal Navy with the ability to design and build efficiently, maintain skills, and maximise export opportunities.

This will ensure a strong naval shipbuilding sector and help deliver an economy that works for everyone.

The government will publish a full response, and implementation plan, in spring 2017. This response will be the National Shipbuilding Strategy and a vital part of the government’s industrial strategy that focuses on increasing economic growth across the country and investing in a more skilled workforce.
More here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/park ... ing-sector

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shark bait
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

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@LandSharkUK

bobp
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by bobp »

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/park ... ing-sector

Use some of the foreign aid money, some of the HS2 money and get moving forward and also order some more F35B while you are at it. Create lots of UK jobs in the supply chain and train more young engineers(Apprentices) in the process.

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

NAB-san is commenting on it at http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/type-31-g ... ent-386263.
It looks like he is not optimistic about the money and also the export. Understandable.

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shark bait
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by shark bait »

Exports are little more than a desire at the moment, and a desire that goes against the grain, all other indications are every one wants to licence build their own ships.

I'd say its much better to become a design and engineering authority, and sell complex systems around the world, actually fabricating ships in the UK for other lower cost economies makes little sense.

The Strategy really appears to be an exercise to drive down the cost of building Royal Navy ships on the Clyde by creating a "virtual competition"
@LandSharkUK

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Turkey just rejected BAES in that capacity
"its much better to become a design and engineering authority"
for frigate/ destroyer sized complex warships
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

marktigger
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by marktigger »

there are still smaller nations out there who will never have the capability to build, or the desire to do so look at ireland they buy in their vessels I think they have only built 1 of their of and have to say the Royal navy could have done with a few of them.

dmereifield
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by dmereifield »

Some positive content such as the block build suggestion and name checking of BMT which would suggest the Venator 110 is more likely in the frame than a pimped OPV. In contrast, there are some worrying statements, e.g.

"Introduce new RN – industry standards in design and production to reduce cost"

"The new Type 31e should not set out to be a complex and sophisticated warship..."

"Consideration might be given to first 2 ships with combat-spec fitted for but not with"

Which might be indicative of low capabilities, falling short of a proper GPFF? Additionally, reading between the lines it sounds like it will be light on ASW.

Mixed bag. Looking forward to the MOD response in the spring which hopefully gives us a better indication of T31 numbers, project budget, desired capability etc

marktigger
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by marktigger »

I think some of the things he says about the current workforce is concerning. We need a massive injection of Youth into the shipbuilding industry. Unfortunetly the rundown of Yards through the 80's & 90's will haunt us for years to come. Hopefully there will be a long term plan to build.

One thing mentioned in the preamble is lack of ring fenced infrastructure budgets maybe that should be looked at

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Seen some one liner on this in the press , but how/ where was it announced?
" Looking forward to the MOD response in the spring which hopefully gives us a better indication of T31 numbers, project budget, desired capability"
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

dmereifield
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by dmereifield »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Seen some one liner on this in the press , but how/ where was it announced?
" Looking forward to the MOD response in the spring which hopefully gives us a better indication of T31 numbers, project budget, desired capability"
I read on a couple of sources that the MOD will respond in the spring - I'm only speculating (hoping) that the response might contain some direct or indirect information pertaining to numbers, budget, timeframe, capability etc

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

I think I saw April mentioned?

Yes, it would have to contain those aspects, to be meaningful, after such a long time of "deliberation"
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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GibMariner
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Re: National Shipbuilding Strategy

Post by GibMariner »

Haven't had time to read it properly yet but from a quick glance I get the feeling that it's less about mapping the future of the Type 31 or other programmes, but instead targeting BAE, sort of putting on the pressure on them to get the Type 26 programme right (cost/time) or else risk losing its monopoly via the implementation of Sir John Parker's recommendations in a restructuring of the military shipbuilding industry. Perhaps a reflection of the views of some in the MoD/government, less of an 'independent' report than we thought? I.e. if you get the Type 26 right/the way we want, we won't have to implement this new 'strategy'.

IIRC the "initial term" of the TOBA between BAE & the MoD was for 15 years from the date of its execution and will continue in effect unless either party terminates it, with a five-year notice, and that neither can serve that termination notice before the tenth year of the contract (just my simplistic interpretation/recollection and would surely be subject to all kinds of terms and conditions). A signal to BAE to get Type 26 right before a renegotiation of TOBA beginning in the mid-late 2020s?

If this is true, who blinks first? BAE could trigger a constitutional crisis.

I've seen it mentioned that Cammell Laird winning the contract to build the new polar research ship (and perhaps its recent experience with refitting RFA vessels) is a sort of test to see whether they can be reclassified as a shipbuilder for naval vessels and diversify shipbuilding away from both BAE and Scotland, possibly also tying in with the previous chancellor's 'Northern Powerhouse' idea.

Surely it would be politically impossible to end shipbuilding on the Clyde (after T26), while on the other hand rebuilding the capabilities of shipyards in England seems almost essential, the problem is that this will cost money and there's no hint (so far, if ever) that any additional funding will be made available.

Would this result in actual competition for RN & export contracts, or will the British taxpayer be supporting two or more monopolies versus the one that currently exists?

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