National Shipbuilding Strategy

[SKB]

1. The ability to dry dock both QEC's at the same time if needs be, say if one needs an emergency repair while #1 dock is already being used.
2. More ability to build larger ships ships for home or export.
3. Cheaper than building a new dock elsewhere.
4. The UK has a real lack of large drydocks anyway.



^ HMS Illustrious in #2 dock

[shark bait]

Sounds like a waste of money.

There are of options for extra dry docks, including floating docks.

[ArmChairCivvy]

We could also plan in less reliability, and provide a heavy tug to be with the carrier (s) where ever it goes

... just a joke, based on the photo you attached

[SKB]

There you go. A quick edit of a bigger dock 2.

HM-Dockyard-Rosyth-Dock2 Idea.JPG

[Dahedd]

Surely it makes sense to develop Rosyth allowing the MARS /future LPH vessels to be assembled there simultaneously . Follow the concept of the carrier's. Modular manufacture round the UK then final assembly at one site.

Reopen other yards to allow them to compete on T26/T31/MHPC vessels.

[Galloglass]

Because they are the sole UK supplier of complex warships, producing to a standard few can match globally.

Its a completely different game to commercial hulls, where there are 100 acceptable suppliers and no national secrets to guard.

What national secrets would those be Sharkbait?

[shark bait]

what national secrets would those be Sharkbait?

Like how to build the world's best submarine hunting ships.

They wouldn't be so expensive if everyone knew how to build them.

[Galloglass]

what national secrets would those be Sharkbait?

Like how to build the world's best submarine hunting ships.

They wouldn't be so expensive if everyone knew how to build them.

Is BAE involved by any chance?

[marktigger]

what national secrets would those be Sharkbait?

Like how to build the world's best submarine hunting ships.

They wouldn't be so expensive if everyone knew how to build them.

Is BAE involved by any chance?

I wonder how many shares in BaE shark Bait has or do they employ him?

[rec]

Surely it makes sense to develop Rosyth allowing the MARS /future LPH vessels to be assembled there simultaneously . Follow the concept of the carrier's. Modular manufacture round the UK then final assembly at one site.

Reopen other yards to allow them to compete on T26/T31/MHPC vessels.

Yes it makes sense for the aircraft carrier alliance to build MARS SSS, and then LPHD, but that is strategic and are our politicians capable of that.

I think Camil laird for part of all of the T31 build

[Ron5]

Surely it makes sense to develop Rosyth allowing the MARS /future LPH vessels to be assembled there simultaneously . Follow the concept of the carrier's. Modular manufacture round the UK then final assembly at one site.

Reopen other yards to allow them to compete on T26/T31/MHPC vessels.

Yes it makes sense for the aircraft carrier alliance to build MARS SSS, and then LPHD, but that is strategic and are our politicians capable of that.

I think Camil laird for part of all of the T31 build

Cammell Laird? On the basis of their fine record of building car ferries? Sounds perfect.

[Ron5]

Because they are the sole UK supplier of complex warships, producing to a standard few can match globally.

Its a completely different game to commercial hulls, where there are 100 acceptable suppliers and no national secrets to guard.

What national secrets would those be Sharkbait?

Seriously? you don't think there are any secrets in the T26 construction? Jeesh.

[Galloglass]

Because they are the sole UK supplier of complex warships, producing to a standard few can match globally.

Its a completely different game to commercial hulls, where there are 100 acceptable suppliers and no national secrets to guard.

What national secrets would those be Sharkbait?

Seriously? you don't think there are any secrets in the T26 construction? Jeesh.

How would I know?.....It's a secret.

[Ron5]

Because they are the sole UK supplier of complex warships, producing to a standard few can match globally.

Its a completely different game to commercial hulls, where there are 100 acceptable suppliers and no national secrets to guard.

What national secrets would those be Sharkbait?

Seriously? you don't think there are any secrets in the T26 construction? Jeesh.

How would I know?.....It's a secret.

I'd like to thank you for your great contribution to this forum.

[shark bait]

Continuing from T31 thread;

Unless they're block built around the country (including Scottish yards) and assembled on the Clyde.

That would be nice.

Frankly its the only reasonable way to involve other yards. Fabricating smaller blocks is much more sustainable as orders can be supplemented by commercial work from the oil and gas and construction industries. There is no way to sustain full complex warship building out side of MOD orders.

It also presents an opportunity for fabricators to compete for work.

May also help with the parallel build, and maybe even increasing numbers.

[Ron5]

Continuing from T31 thread;

Unless they're block built around the country (including Scottish yards) and assembled on the Clyde.

That would be nice.

Frankly its the only reasonable way to involve other yards. Fabricating smaller blocks is much more sustainable as orders can be supplemented by commercial work from the oil and gas and construction industries. There is no way to sustain full complex warship building out side of MOD orders.

It also presents an opportunity for fabricators to compete for work.

May also help with the parallel build, and maybe even increasing numbers.

It is a very inefficient way of building complex warships. The UK made it work for the T45 and CVF builds out of necessity but it drove up the price a lot. Will not be repeated for future escorts.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Necessity might arise in two different ways:

"orders can be supplemented by commercial work from the oil and gas and construction industries"
-such substitution works both ways, and the mentioned orders must have dried up by now

If the parallel build approach (enabled by building of blocks in several locations) is called for by the need to quickly increase hull numbers
- this eventuality does not seem to be on the horizon

[ArmChairCivvy]

What has not been mentioned much here (and what is relevant in the "As-Is" UK context; exemplified by BMT's broad capabilities) is that the Design&Build model has not been broken yet, exc. for
- the carriers?
- the fleet auxiliaries, in many ways closely related to commercial builds/ designs

I am holding my fingers crossed that the above will feature in the National Shipbuiding Strategy document when it is released.
- do we have a date for it yet? Seem to remember late summer/ September being floated at some stage

[ArmChairCivvy]

In light of this
" around £4.5 billion a year to plug the post-Brexit funding gap for key European Union-backed projects that support scientists, farmers and infrastructure"
I don't think shupbuilding is on the list, and reform/ strategy will need to be structural (the buy-side not to be excepted).

[Ron5]

Necessity might arise in two different ways:

"orders can be supplemented by commercial work from the oil and gas and construction industries"
-such substitution works both ways, and the mentioned orders must have dried up by now

If the parallel build approach (enabled by building of blocks in several locations) is called for by the need to quickly increase hull numbers
- this eventuality does not seem to be on the horizon

Why is #1 a necessity? The Treasury doesn't care if the gas & oil construction companies go bust.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Sure about that one?

"The Treasury doesn't care if the gas & oil construction companies go bust."

Even the GM was rescued... much less strategic?

[Ron5]

I thought they just rescued banks

[rec]

Maybe its time to bid for US military aid, like Israel gets!

[Engrover]

Its time for a change of tact by this government by reducing the overseas aid budget and diverting the funds to the defence budget.

[GibMariner]

Chancellor's Autumn Statement will be on November 23rd so we now have a date around which to expect the National Shipbuilding Strategy: