UK Defence Forum

Naval Group & Royal IHC Sign strategic partnership for the Netherlands Submarine Replacement programme

Royal IHC and Naval Group signed their agreement to become core partners in the bid for the Netherlands submarine replacement project. Together they form a robust core team in which both partners bring in their complementary experience and expertise in designing and manufacturing complex maritime and defence systems.

https://www.navalnews.com/news/2019/02/ ... programme/

So Norway+Germany, NL+France. Is Poland still on the loose, looking for a partner?

xav wrote: Naval Group & Royal IHC Sign strategic partnership for the Netherlands Submarine Replacement programme

Royal IHC and Naval Group signed their agreement to become core partners in the bid for the Netherlands submarine replacement project. Together they form a robust core team in which both partners bring in their complementary experience and expertise in designing and manufacturing complex maritime and defence systems.

https://www.navalnews.com/news/2019/02/ ... programme/

ArmChairCivvy wrote:So Norway+Germany, NL+France. Is Poland still on the loose, looking for a partner?

Yes Polish Orka competition is still ongoing...

but so is the Dutch one.

The usual three as still competing: Saab, Naval Group and TKMS

What are the competing designs?

Lord Jim wrote:What are the competing designs?

Saab A26 in its stretched / oceanic / extended range version
TKMS: Type 212CD (variant selected by Norway)
Naval Group: No official confirmation but rumor is it will be something close to their SMX 3.0 concept (i.e a slightly shorter variant of the Barracuda design - shorter than the Australian one). At least for sure it won't be the Scorpene design.

Cheers for the info

well, good luck with that....

Navantia Proposing S80 Submarine for Dutch Navy Walrus-class Replacement

Spanish shipyard Navantia announced today that it is proposing an adaptation to Dutch requirements and local content of the Spanish Navy S80 Plus submarine, as part of its bid for the Walrus Replacement Program. According to Navantia, with a modern design and a similar size to Walrus-class of about 3,000 tons, the reference design is already fully compliant with Dutch requirements including growth potential.

https://www.navalnews.com/news/2019/02/ ... placement/

Saab-Damen details joint offer for the Dutch Walrus Replacement Programme

In a story published on March 2, the Swedish defense company confirmed that the future Expeditionary Submarine production process will see sections made in Karlskrona in Sweden and then assembled in Vlissingen in the Netherlands by Damen. This means joining of pressure hull sections and building of complex platforms and their insertion onto the body of the submarine. Validation and certification phases will also be carried out in Vlissingen. Full life cycle support will be executed in Den Helder, in the North of the Netherlands.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... programme/

Paid a visit to Thales Nederlands recently,
The first of a few videos

The Netherlands Defence Materiel Organisation (DMO) and Thales are developing the Above Water Warfare System (AWWS) for the Royal Netherlands Navy, the first implementation of which will take place on the next generation of its multi-purpose frigates. The M-frigates will be replaced in cooperation with the Belgian Navy. AWWS will protect the Navy against evolving future threats. Vice-Admiral Arie-Jan de Waard, Director of DMO and Gerben Edelijn, CEO of Thales Nederland B.V., are proud of this important step in their cooperation for the future of the Royal Netherlands Navy.




Video: Thales AWWS for the Future Dutch and Belgian Frigates

“We are dealing with threats 3 times the speed of sound, by 2020 this could increase to 5 times speed of sound”
Arie-Jan de Waard, Director, DMO

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -frigates/

Thales SMART-L MM Radar Installed on HNLMS De Zeven Provinciën Frigate

The Royal Netherlands Navy HNLMS De Zeven Provinciën Frigate has received her SMART-L Multi Mission radar upgrade, providing enhanced Air and Missile Defense capability.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... n-frigate/

Netherlands Coastguard Looking for New Maritime Surveillance Aircraft

The Netherlands Coastguard (Nederlandse Kustwacht) is looking for new Maritime Surveillance Aircraft (MSA) according to a contract notice published on the European public procurement platform TED.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -aircraft/

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... 1-billion/

COLOGNE, Germany – The Dutch government on Tuesday announced plans to purchase nine more of Lockheed Martin's F-35 jets, a move that would bring the country's inventory to 46.

The envisioned €1 billion acquisition will “lay the foundation” for a third F-35 squadron in the Dutch air force, a plan that government officials first floated in late 2018, according to a statement posted on the defense ministry website.

The additional aircraft are expected contribute to the air force's objective of having four jets available for NATO missions while also performing homeland defense operations and accounting for training requirements and maintenance downtime.

Fully rounding out a third squadron would require 15 extra planes, however, alliance officials have previously told the Dutch, prompting talk in the Netherlands last year of a potentially higher number eventually.

Another short delay for the Dutch Navy Walrus-class submarine replacement program

The Dutch Secretary of State Barbara Visser still hopes to make a decision this year on the Walrus-class submarines replacement, she recently confirmed to the country’s House of Representatives.

According to Dutch media AD.nl which first published the information yesterday, the long awaited « B-Letter » will announce which company or companies will be allowed to participate in the definition phase. Some imprecise words that could mean a further delay in this 3.5 billion Euros program.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... t-program/

I thought the workshare between Damen and Saab was a winner (and probably will be; how could the other three possibly match the NL content/ workshare offered?). RE:
"the delay is due to the Defense Industry Strategy (DIS) paper issued in November 2018. This document states that future purchases of defense equipment do not only look at the best product at the best price. There must also be « the greatest possible involvement of Dutch business ».

With that strategy in hand, the four providers were asked for further information in April, said Visser. « All of that must now be taken into account."

I went to Damen in the NL last week to learn about their proposal

Well, it makes sense that they cooperate with the Swedes, better to have more than just two SSK producers in Europe.

abc123 wrote:just two SSK producer

Swedes, Germans, French, Spaniards... shall we count the Dutch in (as a half )

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

abc123 wrote:just two SSK producer

Swedes, Germans, French, Spaniards... shall we count the Dutch in (as a half )

No, I meant- the French are one, Germans and Italians second. Swedes and Dutch if this passes, third.
And I wouldn't really count the Spanish as fourth, not after that perversion with S80.

abc123 wrote:Swedes and Dutch if this passes, third.

The Swedes have been constantly building/ upgrading subs. I just wanted to go Dutch with the Dutch as they couldn't build them independently

abc123 wrote:wouldn't really count the Spanish as fourth, not after that perversion with S80.

- you don't believe it will float (err, resurface) even with the second go at it?

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

abc123 wrote:Swedes and Dutch if this passes, third.

The Swedes have been constantly building/ upgrading subs. I just wanted to go Dutch with the Dutch as they couldn't build them independently

abc123 wrote:wouldn't really count the Spanish as fourth, not after that perversion with S80.

- you don't believe it will float (err, resurface) even with the second go at it?

I agree, they can't build their own, well maybe even can, but the risk of Spanish type of problems is top bih.
About the Spanish, I even think that they will work eventually, but that's not the way you build subs.

There was a defense show in Rotterdam this week.

I tried to talk to everyone... tried to, because zeee germans said nein

NEDS 2019: Walrus-class replacement program with Navantia, Naval Group, Saab, TKMS

Thanks xav, without these on the spot reports would be v difficult to stay informed of the latest developments.

The propeller designs seem to be distinctively different, except between Thyssen and Saab Kockums (that for a fleeting moment were under the same corporate umbrella)
- the irony is that Saab was asked to take guardianship of the Swedish firm as the German HQ wanted to keep the ocean-going, expeditionary designs as reserved for that part of the company
- and now, perhaps stemming from the Collins involvement, looks like Saab is finding it easier to stretch existing designs to meet such (Dutch) rqrmnt

xav wrote:There was a defense show in Rotterdam this week.

I tried to talk to everyone... tried to, because zeee germans said nein

NEDS 2019: Walrus-class replacement program with Navantia, Naval Group, Saab, TKMS

I still feel as if the Saab-Damen team has the homefield advantage, and overall it would be beneficial to have Saab more active in the international sub market, but that Naval Group boat is just so nice that I find it hard to count it out.

Halidon wrote:Naval Group boat is just so nice

How close is this one to the Bluefin Barracuda? A la Oz spec