UK Defence Forum

Posted: **18 Jun 2022, 23:14**

How's about 4 + for the RAF to replace the retired BAE 146.

Posted: **19 Jun 2022, 01:12**

maybe useful 4 special forces when A400 r2 big....

Posted: **19 Jun 2022, 02:14**

Personally I would prefer another eight to twelve A400s. This has a lot more to offer if its capabilities are continually expanded, something the Germans and French seem much more interested in doing and far faster then the RAF.

Posted: **19 Jun 2022, 14:59**

Lord Jim wrote: ↑19 Jun 2022, 02:14 Personally I would prefer another eight to twelve A400s. This has a lot more to offer if its capabilities are continually expanded, something the Germans and French seem much more interested in doing and far faster then the RAF.

I think the issue is that we need UK to have a variety of transport aircraft of different sizes and for different purposes. If we are to embrace the required mobility needed for Future Soldier programme, then we do need additional strategic and tactical transports. So I do thik we need more A400's.

But we do need to have SOME smaller transport aircraft, especially those that can land/take off from shorter runways or rough airstrips that an A400 would be unable to do. Especially for special forces missions as mentioned earlier.

Posted: **19 Jun 2022, 15:04**

wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑19 Jun 2022, 14:59
Lord Jim wrote: ↑19 Jun 2022, 02:14 Personally I would prefer another eight to twelve A400s. This has a lot more to offer if its capabilities are continually expanded, something the Germans and French seem much more interested in doing and far faster then the RAF.
I think the issue is that we need UK to have a variety of transport aircraft of different sizes and for different purposes. If we are to embrace the required mobility needed for Future Soldier programme, then we do need additional strategic and tactical transports. So I do thik we need more A400's.

But we do need to have SOME smaller transport aircraft, especially those that can land/take off from shorter runways or rough airstrips that an A400 would be unable to do. Especially for special forces missions as mentioned earlier.

And which smaller transports would u be thinking off?

Considering the French airforce have already cleared there a400 for there small strips in the pacific and a400m’s rough field performance is better than Hercules?

Posted: **19 Jun 2022, 16:19**

SW1 wrote: ↑19 Jun 2022, 15:04
wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑19 Jun 2022, 14:59
Lord Jim wrote: ↑19 Jun 2022, 02:14 Personally I would prefer another eight to twelve A400s. This has a lot more to offer if its capabilities are continually expanded, something the Germans and French seem much more interested in doing and far faster then the RAF.
I think the issue is that we need UK to have a variety of transport aircraft of different sizes and for different purposes. If we are to embrace the required mobility needed for Future Soldier programme, then we do need additional strategic and tactical transports. So I do thik we need more A400's.

But we do need to have SOME smaller transport aircraft, especially those that can land/take off from shorter runways or rough airstrips that an A400 would be unable to do. Especially for special forces missions as mentioned earlier.

And which smaller transports would u be thinking off?

Considering the French airforce have already cleared there a400 for there small strips in the pacific and a400m’s rough field performance is better than Hercules?

OK - thanks for that clarification. I was not aware of that. Do you have some links that discuss this, as I am happy to learn more to correct any gaps in my knowledge?

Posted: **19 Jun 2022, 21:50**

If you want a platform just for SF usage you might as well follow the US and buy a number of the Twin engines Polish transport aircraft.

Posted: **20 Jun 2022, 08:50**

the other is a buy of 10 C-295's 4 in MPA and 6 in the SF role

Posted: **21 Jun 2022, 22:52**

Or ask to join the Franco/German C-130 equipped SF Squadron.

Posted: **07 Jul 2022, 19:02**

NOT RESPECTING THE HEADLINE BUT AT LEAST THE DEVELOPING NARRATIVE:

Sweden, Germany & France launching a project for that 'mid-mkt' soft spot... which will be BIG

Posted: **24 Nov 2022, 09:14**

I interviewed the head of the Dutch DMO (defense materiel organization) on:
- Future submarines
- ASWF frigates
- rMCM
- Impact of war in Ukraine

Posted: **24 Nov 2022, 13:16**

Future Dutch Submarine: Naval Group's Conventional Barracuda
Interview with Naval Group on their proposal for the Walrus-class submarine replacement program. The French shipbuilder is proposing a conventional submarine based on the Barracuda type nuclear-powered submarine (in service with the French Navy and known as Suffren-class).

Posted: **25 Nov 2022, 08:03**

Future Dutch Submarine: TKMS Type 212CD E
Interview with ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) on their proposal for the Walrus-class submarine replacement program. The German shipbuilder is proposing a submarine based on the future Type 212CD (already ordered by the German Navy and Royal Norwegian Navy).

Posted: **25 Nov 2022, 10:23**

* BAE/AUKUS enters chat *

Posted: **25 Nov 2022, 15:48**

Future Dutch Submarine: Saab C71 Submarine (based on A26)
Interview with Saab and Damen on their proposal for the Walrus-class submarine replacement program. The Swedish shipbuilder is proposing the C71 submarine which is based on the future A26 Blekinge-class (two of which are under production for the Royal Swedish Navy).

Posted: **27 Nov 2022, 14:09**

IMHO, they should just join Type 212CD consortium and that's it. If it's good enough for Norway and Germany, it should be good enough for Netherlands too.

Posted: **27 Nov 2022, 16:07**

abc123 wrote: ↑27 Nov 2022, 14:09 IMHO, they should just join Type 212CD consortium and that's it. If it's good enough for Norway and Germany, it should be good enough for Netherlands too.

Like many recent discussions in Royal Navy threads, there are many considerations involved in major shipbuilding in deciding between various proposals:
-Best technical proposal
-Best financial proposal
-Best proposal for local shipbuilding
etc

I have listened to all three of Xavier's interviews. I am not sure how the three proposals compare to each other. But I did note that the Saab proposal was in partnership with Dutch shipbuilder Damen, and the video makes clear that it is a genuine partnership of designing, constructing and then subsequent servicing of the submarines. It makes a big difference if there is a transfer of knowledge to Dutch shipbuilders and key suppliers.

It is possible that there might be some local Dutch involvement in either the German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) Type 212CD E or the French Naval Group conventional version of their Barracuda. And of course they might win on the basis of lowest cost or best technical proposal.....

Posted: **27 Nov 2022, 18:42**

wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑27 Nov 2022, 16:07
abc123 wrote: ↑27 Nov 2022, 14:09 IMHO, they should just join Type 212CD consortium and that's it. If it's good enough for Norway and Germany, it should be good enough for Netherlands too.
Like many recent discussions in Royal Navy threads, there are many considerations involved in major shipbuilding in deciding between various proposals:
-Best technical proposal
-Best financial proposal
-Best proposal for local shipbuilding
etc

I have listened to all three of Xavier's interviews. I am not sure how the three proposals compare to each other. But I did note that the Saab proposal was in partnership with Dutch shipbuilder Damen, and the video makes clear that it is a genuine partnership of designing, constructing and then subsequent servicing of the submarines. It makes a big difference if there is a transfer of knowledge to Dutch shipbuilders and key suppliers.

It is possible that there might be some local Dutch involvement in either the German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) Type 212CD E or the French Naval Group conventional version of their Barracuda. And of course they might win on the basis of lowest cost or best technical proposal.....

I think that there's no possibility to have them built in Netherlands. That ship sailed 30 years ago when the shipyard bankrupted. Trying to again get that would be too expencive IMHO. Servicing them maybe.

Posted: **27 Nov 2022, 20:29**

I thought Damen has shipyards both in the Netherlands and Romania?

From Saab interview, it was nt clar as to what work would be done in Sweden and what in Netherlands.
It maybe some initial construction work done in the Netherlands and then final assembly in Sweden?

Posted: **28 Nov 2022, 05:27**

abc123 wrote: ↑27 Nov 2022, 14:09 IMHO, they should just join Type 212CD consortium and that's it. If it's good enough for Norway and Germany, it should be good enough for Netherlands too.

I think they should study all available options and pick the proposal best suited to their requirements. The Dutch are serious shipbuilders and sub drivers, they have little reason to jump at "good enough."

Posted: **28 Nov 2022, 14:48**

Halidon wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022, 05:27
abc123 wrote: ↑27 Nov 2022, 14:09 IMHO, they should just join Type 212CD consortium and that's it. If it's good enough for Norway and Germany, it should be good enough for Netherlands too.
I think they should study all available options and pick the proposal best suited to their requirements. The Dutch are serious shipbuilders and sub drivers, they have little reason to jump at "good enough."

I know they are. But, they should have allready started to build replacement boats. They are becoming old- Walrus is 30 years old allready.

Posted: **10 Dec 2022, 12:02**

Hope someone has secured the flagship…

Posted: **12 Dec 2022, 19:08**

So the Dutch have also decided to buy NSMs:

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... e-missile/

Posted: **16 Dec 2022, 13:55**

abc123 wrote: ↑12 Dec 2022, 19:08 So the Dutch have also decided to buy NSMs:

Only for the LCF Frigates, the new frigates, the Anti-Submarine Warfare Frigate (ASWF) is not known yet what they get, but i assume they also will get the NSM.

Posted: **29 Mar 2023, 16:44**

https://www.navaltoday.com/2023/03/29/f ... the-water/

It provides for the supply to the Belgian Navy and the Royal Netherlands Navy of twelve mine countermeasures vessels and around a hundred drones integrated inside a toolbox that will equip the vessels.

The first delivery is scheduled for the end of 2024 in Zeebrugge, Belgium. Deliveries will then be staggered until 2030.

The vessels are the first to have the capability to embark and launch a combination of surface drones (themselves 12-metre, 18- tonne vessels), underwater drones and aerial drones.

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