Lockheed C-130 Hercules (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
R686
Senior Member
Posts: 2324
Joined: 28 May 2015, 02:43
Australia

Re: Lockheed C-130 Hercules (RAF)

Post by R686 »

mrclark303 wrote: 24 Apr 2023, 19:48
R686 wrote: 24 Apr 2023, 10:03
mrclark303 wrote: 23 Apr 2023, 23:04
new guy wrote: 23 Apr 2023, 18:52 This is what chat GPT gave me one capabilities lost with C-130 retirement .

"The retirement of the C130 by the Royal Air Force (RAF) will result in the loss of several capabilities that the A400M cannot fully replace. These capabilities include:

1. Capacity. Many of the C-130 will go without direct replacement and overall air-lift capacity will be reduced.

2. Short Take-Off and Landing (STOL) capabilities: The C130 has the ability to operate from short, rough, or unprepared airstrips, which is essential for military operations in remote or austere locations. The A400M can operate from semi-prepared runways, but it is not as versatile as the C130.

3. Tactical airlift: The C130 is a highly maneuverable aircraft that can operate in tight spaces, making it ideal for tactical airlift operations such as air drops and delivery of supplies to troops on the ground. The A400M is larger and less manoeuvrable, which limits its usefulness in these types of operations.

4.Special operations support: The C130 has been extensively used in special operations missions such as infiltration, exfiltration, and resupply of special forces teams. While the A400M has some capabilities in this area, it is not as well-suited for special operations missions as the C130.

Overall, while the A400M is a highly capable aircraft, it cannot fully replace the unique capabilities of the C130. The retirement of the C130 will therefore result in a loss of flexibility and versatility for the RAF in certain types of military operations."

Agree disagree? What solutions are there to fixing the capability gap? More A400M? Focus on moving capabilities over to A400M quicker? Other aircraft like C295 (£40m), Embraer C-390 millenium, C-2, KAI consept? New C-130?
My answer would be to buy 8 more A400's to directly replace the airlift lost from the retirement of the J's.

I would also buy 12 C27J's, for SF and light transport loads. Using A400 for some tasks is like sticking a transit load of pallets onto an Articulated lorry, it's overkill.

The C27 has some very impressive STOL capabilities and can carry a fair load too.

Well not according to the RAAF

https://www.australiandefence.com.au/de ... or-spartan

In an online story posted on July 25, Defence revealed it has redefined the role of its twin-engine Leonardo C-27J Spartan to ‘enhance response and engagements’ by focussing on Humanitarian Aid and Disaster Relief (HADR), crisis response and regional engagements across the Indo-Pacific.
You can read that one or two ways, one that agrees it's exactly that, or the other is a smoke screen for Australian SF use, in a sort of "nothing to see here, move along please" .

Some years back I used to shoot regularly with a 47 Squadron pilot, although he would never say where, he often used to chuckle that a couple of days ago his C130 was sat on a public road, in the sticks, picking folks up in a country that you would never guess such a thing was remotely possible...

My guess would be Australian C27's are often out and about with their trasponders turned off...
I guess we will never know the full story.......
C27 still has not received FOC hence why it was relegated to HADR role also why they bought 4x CH47F and now looking to replace the lot with new build C130J
The Spartans, which entered service eight years ago, replacing the RAAF’s Caribou fleet, have achieved only 35 per cent of planned flying hours over the past five years. The move to redefine their role follows Defence admissions to a parliamentary committee of “deficiencies” with its “electronic self-protection systems”.

Former RAAF head of capability Cath Roberts said last year the Spartan had faced “significant delays in terms of achieving the capability outcomes that were originally determined”.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 5c49ab0900

https://www.contactairlandandsea.com/20 ... %20Spartan.

SouthernOne
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: 23 Nov 2019, 00:01
Australia

Re: Lockheed C-130 Hercules (RAF)

Post by SouthernOne »

R686 wrote: 25 Apr 2023, 00:06
mrclark303 wrote: 24 Apr 2023, 19:48
R686 wrote: 24 Apr 2023, 10:03
mrclark303 wrote: 23 Apr 2023, 23:04
new guy wrote: 23 Apr 2023, 18:52 This is what chat GPT gave me one capabilities lost with C-130 retirement .

"The retirement of the C130 by the Royal Air Force (RAF) will result in the loss of several capabilities that the A400M cannot fully replace. These capabilities include:

1. Capacity. Many of the C-130 will go without direct replacement and overall air-lift capacity will be reduced.

2. Short Take-Off and Landing (STOL) capabilities: The C130 has the ability to operate from short, rough, or unprepared airstrips, which is essential for military operations in remote or austere locations. The A400M can operate from semi-prepared runways, but it is not as versatile as the C130.

3. Tactical airlift: The C130 is a highly maneuverable aircraft that can operate in tight spaces, making it ideal for tactical airlift operations such as air drops and delivery of supplies to troops on the ground. The A400M is larger and less manoeuvrable, which limits its usefulness in these types of operations.

4.Special operations support: The C130 has been extensively used in special operations missions such as infiltration, exfiltration, and resupply of special forces teams. While the A400M has some capabilities in this area, it is not as well-suited for special operations missions as the C130.

Overall, while the A400M is a highly capable aircraft, it cannot fully replace the unique capabilities of the C130. The retirement of the C130 will therefore result in a loss of flexibility and versatility for the RAF in certain types of military operations."

Agree disagree? What solutions are there to fixing the capability gap? More A400M? Focus on moving capabilities over to A400M quicker? Other aircraft like C295 (£40m), Embraer C-390 millenium, C-2, KAI consept? New C-130?
My answer would be to buy 8 more A400's to directly replace the airlift lost from the retirement of the J's.

I would also buy 12 C27J's, for SF and light transport loads. Using A400 for some tasks is like sticking a transit load of pallets onto an Articulated lorry, it's overkill.

The C27 has some very impressive STOL capabilities and can carry a fair load too.

Well not according to the RAAF

https://www.australiandefence.com.au/de ... or-spartan

In an online story posted on July 25, Defence revealed it has redefined the role of its twin-engine Leonardo C-27J Spartan to ‘enhance response and engagements’ by focussing on Humanitarian Aid and Disaster Relief (HADR), crisis response and regional engagements across the Indo-Pacific.
You can read that one or two ways, one that agrees it's exactly that, or the other is a smoke screen for Australian SF use, in a sort of "nothing to see here, move along please" .

Some years back I used to shoot regularly with a 47 Squadron pilot, although he would never say where, he often used to chuckle that a couple of days ago his C130 was sat on a public road, in the sticks, picking folks up in a country that you would never guess such a thing was remotely possible...

My guess would be Australian C27's are often out and about with their trasponders turned off...
I guess we will never know the full story.......
C27 still has not received FOC hence why it was relegated to HADR role also why they bought 4x CH47F and now looking to replace the lot with new build C130J
The Spartans, which entered service eight years ago, replacing the RAAF’s Caribou fleet, have achieved only 35 per cent of planned flying hours over the past five years. The move to redefine their role follows Defence admissions to a parliamentary committee of “deficiencies” with its “electronic self-protection systems”.

Former RAAF head of capability Cath Roberts said last year the Spartan had faced “significant delays in terms of achieving the capability outcomes that were originally determined”.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 5c49ab0900

https://www.contactairlandandsea.com/20 ... %20Spartan.
Sifting through all the media speculation, has there actually been a formal announcement that the C-27 is to be retired (why the recently signed contract for an avionics upgrade) or re-rolled solely to HADR? C-130s and C-17s "transport aircraft" fly a lot of hours on civilian support flights as well. Sending "battlefield air lifters" into countries like the Solomon Islands, PNG or Vanuatu probably sends the wrong signals.

Buying the C-27J via FMS at the time that the USAF walked away from the program no doubt is an underlying cause of a lot of issues.

https://www.defence.gov.au/news-events/ ... cs-upgrade

"Upgrading the cryptographic radio function of the C-27J platform will ensure ongoing availability of secure communications, including interoperability with key strategic partners and intelligence networks, and increased overall safety for our Australian Defence Force personnel.”

R686
Senior Member
Posts: 2324
Joined: 28 May 2015, 02:43
Australia

Re: Lockheed C-130 Hercules (RAF)

Post by R686 »

SouthernOne wrote: 27 Apr 2023, 03:15
R686 wrote: 25 Apr 2023, 00:06
mrclark303 wrote: 24 Apr 2023, 19:48
R686 wrote: 24 Apr 2023, 10:03
mrclark303 wrote: 23 Apr 2023, 23:04
new guy wrote: 23 Apr 2023, 18:52 This is what chat GPT gave me one capabilities lost with C-130 retirement .

"The retirement of the C130 by the Royal Air Force (RAF) will result in the loss of several capabilities that the A400M cannot fully replace. These capabilities include:

1. Capacity. Many of the C-130 will go without direct replacement and overall air-lift capacity will be reduced.

2. Short Take-Off and Landing (STOL) capabilities: The C130 has the ability to operate from short, rough, or unprepared airstrips, which is essential for military operations in remote or austere locations. The A400M can operate from semi-prepared runways, but it is not as versatile as the C130.

3. Tactical airlift: The C130 is a highly maneuverable aircraft that can operate in tight spaces, making it ideal for tactical airlift operations such as air drops and delivery of supplies to troops on the ground. The A400M is larger and less manoeuvrable, which limits its usefulness in these types of operations.

4.Special operations support: The C130 has been extensively used in special operations missions such as infiltration, exfiltration, and resupply of special forces teams. While the A400M has some capabilities in this area, it is not as well-suited for special operations missions as the C130.

Overall, while the A400M is a highly capable aircraft, it cannot fully replace the unique capabilities of the C130. The retirement of the C130 will therefore result in a loss of flexibility and versatility for the RAF in certain types of military operations."

Agree disagree? What solutions are there to fixing the capability gap? More A400M? Focus on moving capabilities over to A400M quicker? Other aircraft like C295 (£40m), Embraer C-390 millenium, C-2, KAI consept? New C-130?
My answer would be to buy 8 more A400's to directly replace the airlift lost from the retirement of the J's.

I would also buy 12 C27J's, for SF and light transport loads. Using A400 for some tasks is like sticking a transit load of pallets onto an Articulated lorry, it's overkill.

The C27 has some very impressive STOL capabilities and can carry a fair load too.

Well not according to the RAAF

https://www.australiandefence.com.au/de ... or-spartan

In an online story posted on July 25, Defence revealed it has redefined the role of its twin-engine Leonardo C-27J Spartan to ‘enhance response and engagements’ by focussing on Humanitarian Aid and Disaster Relief (HADR), crisis response and regional engagements across the Indo-Pacific.
You can read that one or two ways, one that agrees it's exactly that, or the other is a smoke screen for Australian SF use, in a sort of "nothing to see here, move along please" .

Some years back I used to shoot regularly with a 47 Squadron pilot, although he would never say where, he often used to chuckle that a couple of days ago his C130 was sat on a public road, in the sticks, picking folks up in a country that you would never guess such a thing was remotely possible...

My guess would be Australian C27's are often out and about with their trasponders turned off...
I guess we will never know the full story.......
C27 still has not received FOC hence why it was relegated to HADR role also why they bought 4x CH47F and now looking to replace the lot with new build C130J
The Spartans, which entered service eight years ago, replacing the RAAF’s Caribou fleet, have achieved only 35 per cent of planned flying hours over the past five years. The move to redefine their role follows Defence admissions to a parliamentary committee of “deficiencies” with its “electronic self-protection systems”.

Former RAAF head of capability Cath Roberts said last year the Spartan had faced “significant delays in terms of achieving the capability outcomes that were originally determined”.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 5c49ab0900

https://www.contactairlandandsea.com/20 ... %20Spartan.
Sifting through all the media speculation, has there actually been a formal announcement that the C-27 is to be retired (why the recently signed contract for an avionics upgrade) or re-rolled solely to HADR? C-130s and C-17s "transport aircraft" fly a lot of hours on civilian support flights as well. Sending "battlefield air lifters" into countries like the Solomon Islands, PNG or Vanuatu probably sends the wrong signals.

Buying the C-27J via FMS at the time that the USAF walked away from the program no doubt is an underlying cause of a lot of issues.

https://www.defence.gov.au/news-events/ ... cs-upgrade

"Upgrading the cryptographic radio function of the C-27J platform will ensure ongoing availability of secure communications, including interoperability with key strategic partners and intelligence networks, and increased overall safety for our Australian Defence Force personnel.”
Not officially as far as I am aware......but they is interest on replacing the fleet with 24C130J under FMS but nothing in the new DSR unless I missed it

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major- ... 0-aircraft

SW1
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Re: Lockheed C-130 Hercules (RAF)

Post by SW1 »

If you want to fly join the airforce!



Hope everyone is getting a well earned rest this evening magnificent job all round.
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SKB
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Re: Lockheed C-130 Hercules (RAF)

Post by SKB »

RAF's 'amazing' Hercules retired after almost 57 years of service

(Forces News) 9th June 2023
The Royal Air Force has said goodbye to the Hercules aircraft after nearly 57 years of dedicated service.

In a ceremony held at RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire, tributes were led by the Princess Royal. The retirement of the Hercules, known as the workhorse of the RAF, closes a remarkable chapter in RAF history.

The event also commemorated the standing down of No. 47 Squadron which operated the Hercules since its maiden flight in 1966.

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