Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by Repulse »

Very short sighted - forward basing both Tankers alongside the Rivers would give a significant presence at a very reasonable cost.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by serge750 »

Bet they will sold by 2024....
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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by Jake1992 »

What makes it even worse is the world is clearly getting more dangerous yet HMG still push cuts over such little funds.

Even if we look at it that the RN is short of the £79m to run them between now and 2028 are we really expected to accept HMG can’t find that but can find £2bn per month for covid tests. To me this screams how terrible the finances are in the MOD of the RN can’t keep these for what £9m per year.

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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by SW1 »

Defence has been given a large settlement championed by many only a few month ago, the RN runs there part of the budget as they see fit they clearly want something more than these.

Like here


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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Jake1992 wrote: 21 Feb 2022, 18:50And how is putting £110m to one side in order to “save” £79m help fund the FSS ?
If the two Waves be NOT re-activated, the "£110m set aside" will be able to be used for something else.

Looking at the review, they stress they cut in many places to provide money for new equipment, even though significant increase has been agreed with HM Treasury.

Simply, RN is not having enough money. I strongly think, cancel T32 and relax everything else. This is much better.
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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by Tempest414 »

We can't cut type 32 there is nothing to cut as it stands its five letters and two numbers on a peace of paper there is no funding to cut or anything for it

At this time cutting the Wave's is just dumb at a time of high tensions if there is not enough in the budget then we need a bigger budget
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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Tempest414 wrote: 22 Feb 2022, 16:23 We can't cut type 32 there is nothing to cut as it stands its five letters and two numbers on a peace of paper there is no funding to cut or anything for it

At this time cutting the Wave's is just dumb at a time of high tensions if there is not enough in the budget then we need a bigger budget
In the DEP report, page 34,

The most significant investment in the Navy comes in the form of the shipbuilding pipeline. A strategic and long-term investment that will increase the capability and size of the Royal Navy’s surface fleet and allow the development of three Fleet Solid Support Ships, a Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Capability, Multi-Role Support Ships and Type 31 and Type 32 frigates. This will provide volume and certainty for our national shipbuilding enterprise and incentivise UK industry to invest to deliver world-leading levels of productivity.

So, in the 10 year budget plan, there "will" be T32 already assigned. Of course, it is 2021-2031, so, only the start-up phase. But, it is written there so RN has assigned some budget plan to it. Want to see how it is planned....

By the way, where is the re-newed NSbS???
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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by Dahedd »

Such a waste.

Is there no way to convert these to other uses? Caribbean patrol ship for one, free up a Bay from doing it.

Mine warfare mothership for another. 2 fabulous hulls sat there doing SFA.

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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

No crew. This is the main point of Waves being laid up.

If it is a waste, RFA must have built only 3 Tides, so that 2 Waved and 3 Tides were to be rotated as 4 active and 1 in long-maintenance.

If, only if there were some more crews coming, sending a Wave to East of Suez will be just fine, so as to improve the tanker capability there. RAN has two AOR (combined), RNZN has one AOR (mostly oiler). Waves, without any modification, can do HADR to some extent (just need to carry a few small LCVPs).
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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by Repulse »

I just can’t see anything in the plan to address RFA manning so that all assets can be used. Can you imagine the scandal if it was another government department - e.g. a modern high tech Hospital left empty without staff.

Something radical is required, hence my suggestion a while ago to assign the LSDs with modification to the RN and scrap the two LPDs. Tough choices, but as the Ukraine has once again shown logistics are key.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by Repulse »

Agree it’s poor management, but and there are plenty of delays in defence procurement programmes. The point is that I’m not aware of a modern hospital that is currently in mothballs due to lack of staff.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

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I remember when I worked in the NHS we had 3 wards closed due to lack of staff

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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

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donald_of_tokyo wrote: 08 Aug 2022, 13:22 No crew. This is the main point of Waves being laid up.

If it is a waste, RFA must have built only 3 Tides, so that 2 Waved and 3 Tides were to be rotated as 4 active and 1 in long-maintenance.

If, only if there were some more crews coming, sending a Wave to East of Suez will be just fine, so as to improve the tanker capability there. RAN has two AOR (combined), RNZN has one AOR (mostly oiler). Waves, without any modification, can do HADR to some extent (just need to carry a few small LCVPs).
The way forward is a scheme where we offer people from overseas UK citizenship if they complete 26 years in the RFA
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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

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Tempest414 wrote: 09 Aug 2022, 10:21 The way forward is a scheme where we offer people from overseas UK citizenship if they complete 26 years in the RFA
You seem to be convinced that the problem is recruitment rather than funds to pay salaries. I’m not sure anymore that that is the case.
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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

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Repulse wrote: 09 Aug 2022, 21:18
Tempest414 wrote: 09 Aug 2022, 10:21 The way forward is a scheme where we offer people from overseas UK citizenship if they complete 26 years in the RFA
You seem to be convinced that the problem is recruitment rather than funds to pay salaries. I’m not sure anymore that that is the case.
What I really think is it is a bit of both and retention is the real problem and that is why the citizenship deal is important say 26 to 30 year service
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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Repulse wrote: 09 Aug 2022, 21:18
Tempest414 wrote: 09 Aug 2022, 10:21 The way forward is a scheme where we offer people from overseas UK citizenship if they complete 26 years in the RFA
You seem to be convinced that the problem is recruitment rather than funds to pay salaries. I’m not sure anymore that that is the case.
To prepare 120 soul crew, you will be 200 more members. To employ them, you need about £20M annually. It is about 0.05 percent of £40B annual budget of UK military. Large?

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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by Repulse »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 09:21 To prepare 120 soul crew, you will be 200 more members. To employ them, you need about £20M annually. It is about 0.05 percent of £40B annual budget of UK military. Large?
In isolation no, in a prioritised list that distinguishes between OPEX and CAPEX yes.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Repulse wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 13:58
donald_of_tokyo wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 09:21 To prepare 120 soul crew, you will be 200 more members. To employ them, you need about £20M annually. It is about 0.05 percent of £40B annual budget of UK military. Large?
In isolation no, in a prioritised list that distinguishes between OPEX and CAPEX yes.
So you mean "only 9 RFA ship active" is largely acceptable. If more vessel is a priority, it shall be budgeted. I guess UK MOD is thinking so. However, I ASLO think lack of overall man power itseif is there, UK-wide. It is not only salary issue, although just guess.

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Re: Wave Class Tanker (RFA)

Post by Jensy »

Something a bit more light-hearted than usual!

Saw this on Twitter:



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