Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

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Gabriele
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by Gabriele »

Indeed, it is late. Had it been done before, it would have been easier to pitch the Brimstone in the US as JAGM solution. Now that very lucrative train seems to have passed and gone.
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Jdam
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by Jdam »

Lets hope this doesn't turn into another Reaper like test where they prove it can be fired from an Apache and that's it.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by Gabriele »

Jdam wrote:Lets hope this doesn't turn into another Reaper like test where they prove it can be fired from an Apache and that's it.
Don't expect Brimstone integration on UK Apaches before 2020 / 2021, the Hellfire OSD.

I would think that the only logical way to approach Brimstone integration at this point in time, indeed, is have it from the start on the Apache Block III coming out of the CSP programme, and on Protector from the start as it begins replacing Reaper. I would think and hope that integration of Brimstone and Paveway IV on Protector would be pretty high on the requirement list...
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The Armchair Soldier
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

Not something you see every day; AAC Apaches without their longbow radars:

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whitelancer
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by whitelancer »

Going to be airlifted somewhere?

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by Tinman »

One passed over ullswater today, distinctive sound.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

whitelancer wrote:Going to be airlifted somewhere?
Reminds me of the question: has the remanufacturing deal been sealed? If so, the quarter of the total number, now kept in storage, would allow for an orderly rotation during the process.

This low percentage (12) from defence-update a year ago would relate to the already confirmed US plans?

" It is estimated that about 12 percent of AH-64E components are remanufactured in the process. The British conversion could be streamlined with the US Army plan to remanufacture 634 AH-64Ds into AH-64E standard by 2020."
- is there any streamlining in sight of the "UK specials" fitted in the original manufacture, or will they all be carried on to the next edition?
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by JayDee »

MoD poised to award £2bn Apache deal to Boeing in new blow to UK defence industry

The Ministry of Defence is poised to hand another major deal to a US company, with a £2bn contract for new Apache helicopters set to be awarded to Boeing.

Leonardo, the Italian aerospace manufacturer until recently known as Finmeccanica, had been battling to land the deal, which would have seen the refitted helicopters produced at its base in Yeovil, Somerset, where 3,700 staff are employed. Such an agreement would have provided a significant long-term boost to UK jobs and skills.

However, it is understood the MoD has decided to hand the 50-aircraft contract, worth £2bn over its lifetime when servicing is included, to Boeing.

An announcement could come as soon as early July at the Royal International Air Tattoo or Farnborough air show.

The original fleet of 67 British Apaches was produced by Westland in Yeovil, which in 1995 started assembling US-built components and added UK modifications that more than doubled the price to about £44m per helicopter. Westland is now part of Italian state-backed Leonardo.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... low-to-uk/

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by RetroSicotte »

It's a bitter pill to swallow.

But AW almost certainly would be priced to an outrageous extent and there's no other Western helo that fits the requirements.

Yeovil would be better poised to keep working on, I dunno, a bunch of Merlins we have sitting around with no current role? Those leftover ones would work a treat.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by marktigger »

beoing UK has been recruiting

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by Ron5 »

RetroSicotte wrote:It's a bitter pill to swallow.

But AW almost certainly would be priced to an outrageous extent and there's no other Western helo that fits the requirements.

Yeovil would be better poised to keep working on, I dunno, a bunch of Merlins we have sitting around with no current role? Those leftover ones would work a treat.
Surely the pill was swallowed when Apache was originally ordered over European competitors. Bit late now.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by RetroSicotte »

Ron5 wrote:Surely the pill was swallowed when Apache was originally ordered over European competitors. Bit late now.
Given how the Tiger turned out, not particularly.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by Jdam »

Any reason to go for the AH-1Z Viper over the Apache? I was just thinking it should already be suitable for use on board ships.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by arfah »

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by shark bait »

That's quick to identify AW as the culprit for a high price, but I would say the blame lies with Boeing.

Boeing have no incentive to offer an affordable package to AW, they will want to make a similar margin on there technology no matter where it's built. It's either one company skimming a profit, or two companies making a profit.

Boeing defence is also under pressure to increase revenue as their sales dry up so they would make it impossible for AW to make a competitive bid to protect their own revenue.
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by Ron5 »

shark bait wrote:That's quick to identify AW as the culprit for a high price, but I would say the blame lies with Boeing.

Boeing have no incentive to offer an affordable package to AW, they will want to make a similar margin on there technology no matter where it's built. It's either one company skimming a profit, or two companies making a profit.

Boeing defence is also under pressure to increase revenue as their sales dry up so they would make it impossible for AW to make a competitive bid to protect their own revenue.
Really?

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

JayDee wrote: it is understood the MoD has decided to hand the 50-aircraft contract, worth £2bn over its lifetime when servicing is included, to Boeing.

An announcement could come as soon as early July at the Royal International Air Tattoo or Farnborough air show.
I guess we will only hear in about month's time which UK-specific bits will "drop off" to keep the refurb/ rebuild as std as possible through the production run (and the cost per unit low, by doing so)?
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by Ron5 »

arfah wrote:From the Daily Mail...

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mark ... -425m.html

The UK's order of 50 airframes is part of a far larger order for the US Army leading to a discount.

£8.5million cost per airframe.
Daily Mail? Hardly a credible source.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by Jdam »

£8.5million cost per airframe ?!?! No wonder we went with Boeing at that price :shock:

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by jimthelad »

Bugger me sideways with a fishfork, an outbreak of common sense in MoD. Bravo, the penny has finally dropped.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (Army Air Corps)

Post by bobp »

Seems sensible to go direct because if AW had the maintenance contract they would still have to get the spares from Boeing before adding a bit to the price. My one question would be what about UK weapons such as Brimstone.

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