Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
R686
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by R686 »

SW1 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 21:35

I could go on in that Australia used an internal system to control configuration and spares life which didn’t account for time on shelf and hence they lost configuration of there entire nh90 fleet now when that happens and you don’t know what’s on what aircraft and how much life you have they have you in for one big bill to sort out.
If that were the case, then it would affect the ADF across the entire fleet of aircraft Blackhawks CH-47 along with RAAF with E7A KC30A

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament ... Helicopter
SW1 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 21:35 Spares supply has been issue for Australia were as New Zealand operated a smaller fleet with bigger spares holding and has been operated relatively ok.
NZ bought a 9th aircraft just for spare issues, they to are having parts issues as the turnaround time for refurbishment from Europe is a fundamental issue. I have heard that the Kiwis are cannibalizing aircraft parts from one to another to keep 4-5 operational at any one time. Apparently they are also waiting on a gearbox to return from the OEM since 2018
SW1 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 21:35 As a concept nh90 suffered a similar fate to a380 to many configurations for too many international regulators and ended up a bit of nightmare. Sweden and Denmark were operating the asw version which has had spare availability issues and asw systems issues, Merlin has had similar issues in the uk.
Are you saying too many cooks?

Kiwi ADF birds are near identical except for radios things like that. but all aircraft have a common base design
SW1 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 21:35 At that point new is just about expensive and if you’re planning to integrate within American structures and systems you make the choice.
Integrating with US systems does not mean you have to use them, but it seems that because of scale of US made equipment buying from the US is less risk.
SW1 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 21:35 Tiger is in at the MLU point as it is in Germany you either pay the big bill for an above or look to change approach. Australia acquired tiger to replace oh-58 Kiowa warrior in scout attack. The tigers first arrived in Australia in 2004. That’s nearly 20 years ago.
Agree and they have chosen!

it's a pity as on paper they are very good.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by mrclark303 »

R686 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 23:15
SW1 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 21:35

I could go on in that Australia used an internal system to control configuration and spares life which didn’t account for time on shelf and hence they lost configuration of there entire nh90 fleet now when that happens and you don’t know what’s on what aircraft and how much life you have they have you in for one big bill to sort out.
If that were the case, then it would affect the ADF across the entire fleet of aircraft Blackhawks CH-47 along with RAAF with E7A KC30A

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament ... Helicopter
SW1 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 21:35 Spares supply has been issue for Australia were as New Zealand operated a smaller fleet with bigger spares holding and has been operated relatively ok.
NZ bought a 9th aircraft just for spare issues, they to are having parts issues as the turnaround time for refurbishment from Europe is a fundamental issue. I have heard that the Kiwis are cannibalizing aircraft parts from one to another to keep 4-5 operational at any one time. Apparently they are also waiting on a gearbox to return from the OEM since 2018
SW1 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 21:35 As a concept nh90 suffered a similar fate to a380 to many configurations for too many international regulators and ended up a bit of nightmare. Sweden and Denmark were operating the asw version which has had spare availability issues and asw systems issues, Merlin has had similar issues in the uk.
Are you saying too many cooks?

Kiwi ADF birds are near identical except for radios things like that. but all aircraft have a common base design
SW1 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 21:35 At that point new is just about expensive and if you’re planning to integrate within American structures and systems you make the choice.
Integrating with US systems does not mean you have to use them, but it seems that because of scale of US made equipment buying from the US is less risk.
SW1 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 21:35 Tiger is in at the MLU point as it is in Germany you either pay the big bill for an above or look to change approach. Australia acquired tiger to replace oh-58 Kiowa warrior in scout attack. The tigers first arrived in Australia in 2004. That’s nearly 20 years ago.
Agree and they have chosen!

it's a pity as on paper they are very good.
I have to applaud SW1 for his energetic defence of the NH90, I really do, I'm glad someone likes it, just a shame it's not the air force's or Navies that have to operate them.

Sweden finally threw in the towel because they only ever had 5 or 6 of their delivered 12 machines operational, the others were constantly U/S...

Let's not get into the soft as butter floor plates or the corrosion issues, yep, corrosion issues on a Naval helicopter.... Sort of the basics really...

The problem with the soup of European helicopter manufacturers, is anything that follows is firmly painted with the same brush....

It leaves a bad taste in the mouth and gives ( what might be a fine helicopter) a mountain to climb to land a sale....

With balance and fairness in mind, the UK embarked on the last British Helicopter, the final throw of the dice that became Wildcat.

It should have been apparent from the very first industry gathering around a conference table at Whitehall, that the subsequent helicopter born from that meeting would be so removed from its parent Lynx heritage and so very bespoke /extremely expensive, there would be (at best) a 'tiny' prospect of foreign sales.

The Government knew this fully and cracked on anyway, pouring precious defence money away on yet another bespoke folly....

It is apparently reliable and an excellent Naval helicopter though, so there's always that to take comfort in, perhaps it's reassuringly expensive!

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by SW1 »

I neither like or dislike nh90 my point is their issues are far more complicated and nuanced that you are making out.

It’s not like Blackhawk doesn’t share similar issues

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-bl ... ashes/?amp

But this wouldn’t the first time that the Army’s Black Hawk fleet has come under serious scrutiny following a fatal mishap. Indeed, the widow of a UH-60 crew chief who died in a deadly crash on a Maryland golf course in April 2017 sued Lockheed Martin’ over the incident, alleging that the Black Hawk manufacturer knew that some of the aircraft’s components were “unfit, unsafe, unairworthy and defective.”

“The Army’s investigation found that an important internal laminate skin that bonds parts of the rotor system together had disintegrated, causing part of the vehicle’s tail rotor system to fall off midflight,”

Even worse, the service “did not effectively manage airframe condition evaluations for the UH-60 fleet,” with nearly 25 percent (460 out of 2,098) of the branch’s Black Hawk helicopters foregoing safety inspections and other mandatory evaluations designed to maintain airframe readiness between March 2016 and February 2017, according to the DoD IG report.

Officials “did not require an evaluation for all H-60 helicopters or verify that all exemptions were valid, coordinate with unit commanders to ensure all H-60 helicopters were available for evaluation, and require evaluations of H-60 helicopters that were less than 3 years old,” according to the report. “Evaluators identified safety problems with some H-60 helicopters that required the unit commander to ground (restrict flying) those helicopters.”


My point in general too much focus on buying the shiny new and to little attension paid to the support and maintenance side of introducing and supporting an aircraft in service. It’s not the sexy bit and the bit easiest to cut and hide because it is the expensive part.
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by mrclark303 »

SW1 wrote: 24 Mar 2023, 08:12 I neither like or dislike nh90 my point is their issues are far more complicated and nuanced that you are making out.

It’s not like Blackhawk doesn’t share similar issues

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-bl ... ashes/?amp

But this wouldn’t the first time that the Army’s Black Hawk fleet has come under serious scrutiny following a fatal mishap. Indeed, the widow of a UH-60 crew chief who died in a deadly crash on a Maryland golf course in April 2017 sued Lockheed Martin’ over the incident, alleging that the Black Hawk manufacturer knew that some of the aircraft’s components were “unfit, unsafe, unairworthy and defective.”

“The Army’s investigation found that an important internal laminate skin that bonds parts of the rotor system together had disintegrated, causing part of the vehicle’s tail rotor system to fall off midflight,”

Even worse, the service “did not effectively manage airframe condition evaluations for the UH-60 fleet,” with nearly 25 percent (460 out of 2,098) of the branch’s Black Hawk helicopters foregoing safety inspections and other mandatory evaluations designed to maintain airframe readiness between March 2016 and February 2017, according to the DoD IG report.

Officials “did not require an evaluation for all H-60 helicopters or verify that all exemptions were valid, coordinate with unit commanders to ensure all H-60 helicopters were available for evaluation, and require evaluations of H-60 helicopters that were less than 3 years old,” according to the report. “Evaluators identified safety problems with some H-60 helicopters that required the unit commander to ground (restrict flying) those helicopters.”


My point in general too much focus on buying the shiny new and to little attension paid to the support and maintenance side of introducing and supporting an aircraft in service. It’s not the sexy bit and the bit easiest to cut and hide because it is the expensive part.
That's a totally valid point SW1....

To further that, it's the same right across the board and it always has been.

The British Army once boasted 900 MBTs in its arsenal in the late 80's, however it was well known that a large number of them at any one time were unavailable to the lack of spares...

There was a total reliance on a 9 month ratcheting up of tension, leading to WW3, allowing us to pull out the stops and mobilise.

Thypoons waiting for major servicing, end up being spares hanger queens getting robbed of parts....

As much as things change, they stay the same....

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by Timmymagic »

APKWSII for the UK's Apache fleet. Been trailed for a while. Not exactly an enormous order but its a start.

CRV-7 is being retired, despite its superior kinematics, and is being replaced with Hydra 70. Hopefully we can send the CRV-7 over to the Ukrainian's...

The Army is still also resolutely ignoring the Prosperity Agenda and seems to order foreign kit with abandon...same as the RAF...



WASHINGTON, April 28, 2023 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of the United Kingdom of Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System-II for an estimated cost of $31.2 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.

The Government of the United Kingdom has requested to buy up to seven hundred sixty-eight (768) Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System-II (APKWS-II) All Up Round (AURs) (Single Variant). Also included is support equipment; spare and repair parts; publications and technical documentation; transportation; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistical support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The total estimated cost is $31.2 million.

This proposed sale will support the foreign policy goals and national security objectives of the United States by improving the security of a NATO Ally that is a force for political stability and economic progress in Europe.

The proposed sale will improve the United Kingdom’s capability to meet current and future threats by ensuring its aviation forces’ interoperability with United States and other allied forces as well as its ability to contribute to missions of mutual interest. By deploying the Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System, the United Kingdom would contribute to global readiness and enhance the capability for U.S. forces operating globally alongside them. The United Kingdom will have no difficulty absorbing this equipment into its armed forces.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The principal contractors will be BAE Systems, Nashua, New Hampshire. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.

Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips by approximately five (5) U.S. Government representatives and the assignment of approximately five (5) contractor representatives to the United Kingdom on an intermittent basis for a period of approximately five (5) years to support delivery and integration of items and to provide supply support management, inventory control, and equipment familiarization.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by Jackstar »

A partnership between Regular and Reservist soldiers to supply and maintain the British Army’s helicopters on the battlefield has been tested for the first time.

The Regulars of 7 Aviation Support Battalion Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (7 Avn Sp Bn REME) and Reservists of 158 Regiment Royal Logistic Corps (158 Regt RLC) have joined forces on Exercise Iron Titan to practice how they would operate together to keep helicopters flying and in the fight.

The troops have set up camp at Swynnerton in Staffordshire to support Apache and Wildcat helicopters flying strike and reconnaissance missions out of Nesscliffe, some 40 miles away in Shropshire.

https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-events ... licopters/

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by SW1 »

What happens when you don’t pony up the £70m to integrate brimstone you sign up to a $1 billion dollar order for munitions from America. Industrial strategy in action.

https://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/file ... 20CN_0.pdf

WASHINGTON, October 23, 2023 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of the United Kingdom of Joint Air-to-Ground Missiles (JAGM) for an estimated cost of $957.4 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.

The Government of the United Kingdom has requested to buy three thousand (3,000) Joint Air-to-GroundMissiles (JAGM), AGM-179A. Also included are dummy missiles; technical assistance; publications; integration support; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The total estimated program
cost is $957.4 million.
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

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:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by new guy »

We could have gotten 5,000 brimstone for that price.
This is MoD vileness embodied.
Ajax
wedgetail
Westland delays.
F-35 delays
capability gaps
T26
boxer

Too many more.
again, vile.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

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SW1 wrote: 23 Oct 2023, 21:46 What happens when you don’t pony up the £70m to integrate brimstone you sign up to a $1 billion dollar order for munitions from America. Industrial strategy in action.

https://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/file ... 20CN_0.pdf

WASHINGTON, October 23, 2023 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of the United Kingdom of Joint Air-to-Ground Missiles (JAGM) for an estimated cost of $957.4 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.

The Government of the United Kingdom has requested to buy three thousand (3,000) Joint Air-to-GroundMissiles (JAGM), AGM-179A. Also included are dummy missiles; technical assistance; publications; integration support; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The total estimated program
cost is $957.4 million.
Yep.

JAGM cost from this contract is over $300,000 per missile. (So much for people saying the price would come down when it hit full production...). Not a penny of which is spent in the UK....

Last Brimstone price we saw was in 2018/19. Missile cost was £85,000. With the current $ to £ exchange rate, and a very generous markup for inflation its pretty safe to say that a Brimstone 3 does not cost more than $150,000....

The money for Brimstone would have been spent in the UK....would have purchased a weapon with far more range....and one that could be used in a shared stockpile with RAF...integration with AH-64E would have also opened export sales to the likes of Poland and Saudi Arabia....

Absolute insanity.

Either Army are utterly cretinous, or they are corrupt. Or both....
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by Timmymagic »

new guy wrote: 23 Oct 2023, 22:43 We could have gotten 15,000 brimstone for that price.
This is MoD vileness embodied.
Brimstone isn't that cheap....

It would have been 6,000 missiles instead of 3,000....

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Timmymagic wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 08:40 Absolute insanity.
This decision is so wrongheaded it requires urgent explanation as to why the Industrial strategy for UKPLC was circumvented in this way.

If there is a plausible explanation why not share it with the taxpayers?
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by SD67 »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 09:47
Timmymagic wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 08:40 Absolute insanity.
This decision is so wrongheaded it requires urgent explanation as to why the Industrial strategy for UKPLC was circumvented in this way.

If there is a plausible explanation why not share it with the taxpayers?
Airmiles driven procurement strategy.

You don't earn many frequent flyer points on a business trip to Manchester

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by Timmymagic »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 09:47
Timmymagic wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 08:40 Absolute insanity.
This decision is so wrongheaded it requires urgent explanation as to why the Industrial strategy for UKPLC was circumvented in this way.

If there is a plausible explanation why not share it with the taxpayers?
They will claim risks around integration, particularly now the whole 'JAGM will be cheaper in mass production' thing has fallen apart...

But they've had 7+ years for that integration effort on AH-64E alone, let alone the preceding 2 decades in AH-64D....with a missile that is the exact same shape as JAGM/Hellfire, same CoG, same mounting points, compatible with standard laser designators etc...a missile that has even been fired from AH-64E on multiple occasions in the 'most aggressive test shots Ive seen'...to quote a Boeing representative....as integration efforts go a lot of risk had already been removed by the nature of Brimstone. Would there be risk? Yes, there always is. But it doesn't stack up when you realise that JAGM has been repeatedly delayed and there was risk to that integration as well....

Quite frankly its very hard to justify the MoD's budget when they pull stunts like this...

The cost of this contract is £781m

Integration of Brimstone to AH-64E was expected to cost £50m, but lets play the game and say it would have cost way more, say double...£100m.

That leaves you with £681m to spend on missiles...that is 5,500 Brimstone (assuming a reasonable cost of $150k).

If we only really wanted 3,000 in total we could have saved £300m....

And to put that in perspective thats a tram system in a large town, a small hospital, a Type 31 frigate or 50 additional CR3 for the Army...

And thats before we get into the tax benefits and employment in the UK, plus export opportunities...
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Timmymagic wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 10:32
How on earth did HMT sign it off?

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by new guy »

Timmymagic wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 08:41
new guy wrote: 23 Oct 2023, 22:43 We could have gotten 15,000 brimstone for that price.
This is MoD vileness embodied.
Brimstone isn't that cheap....

It would have been 6,000 missiles instead of 3,000....
sorry, added a 1, 5,000 was my intent.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by SD67 »

Timmymagic wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 10:32
Poiuytrewq wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 09:47
Timmymagic wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 08:40 Absolute insanity.
This decision is so wrongheaded it requires urgent explanation as to why the Industrial strategy for UKPLC was circumvented in this way.

If there is a plausible explanation why not share it with the taxpayers?
They will claim risks around integration, particularly now the whole 'JAGM will be cheaper in mass production' thing has fallen apart...

But they've had 7+ years for that integration effort on AH-64E alone, let alone the preceding 2 decades in AH-64D....with a missile that is the exact same shape as JAGM/Hellfire, same CoG, same mounting points, compatible with standard laser designators etc...a missile that has even been fired from AH-64E on multiple occasions in the 'most aggressive test shots Ive seen'...to quote a Boeing representative....as integration efforts go a lot of risk had already been removed by the nature of Brimstone. Would there be risk? Yes, there always is. But it doesn't stack up when you realise that JAGM has been repeatedly delayed and there was risk to that integration as well....

Quite frankly its very hard to justify the MoD's budget when they pull stunts like this...

The cost of this contract is £781m

Integration of Brimstone to AH-64E was expected to cost £50m, but lets play the game and say it would have cost way more, say double...£100m.

That leaves you with £681m to spend on missiles...that is 5,500 Brimstone (assuming a reasonable cost of $150k).

If we only really wanted 3,000 in total we could have saved £300m....

And to put that in perspective thats a tram system in a large town, a small hospital, a Type 31 frigate or 50 additional CR3 for the Army...

And thats before we get into the tax benefits and employment in the UK, plus export opportunities...
There's also the exchange rate risk as the GBP seems to be gliding towards parity with the USD. Ironically right at the time Brimstone is kicking *ss in Ukraine! You could not make this up

I'm starting to think the Army and whatever section of DES deals with Land should just be relieved of procurement responsibilities. They don't get it. Hire the Polish or Australian army to do it for us.
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by new guy »

Great thread:



also an interesting take:
With the first of the planned 16 Protectors arriving, the RAF already has faith in the Brimstone missile and has not signalled that they do not intend to use it.

As an aside, Protector aircraft cost "just" £15M a piece based on the last contract, again with NRE mostly paid for now. By saving money integrating Brimstone on AH-64E instead of JAGM, the RAF could have the funds to double the number of Protector aircraft and integrate more equipment onto them while still having cash to spare.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Timmymagic wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 10:32 Quite frankly its very hard to justify the MoD's budget when they pull stunts like this...
Could it get even better?

If Brimstone is integrated on the NMH it will possibly be the worst procurement decision in decades.


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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by new guy »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 12:18
Timmymagic wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 10:32 Quite frankly its very hard to justify the MoD's budget when they pull stunts like this...
Could it get even better?

If Brimstone is integrated on the NMH it will possibly be the worst procurement decision in decades.

The irony would be unparelled.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by Tempest414 »

Timmymagic wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 10:32
Poiuytrewq wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 09:47
Timmymagic wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 08:40 Absolute insanity.
This decision is so wrongheaded it requires urgent explanation as to why the Industrial strategy for UKPLC was circumvented in this way.

If there is a plausible explanation why not share it with the taxpayers?
They will claim risks around integration, particularly now the whole 'JAGM will be cheaper in mass production' thing has fallen apart...

But they've had 7+ years for that integration effort on AH-64E alone, let alone the preceding 2 decades in AH-64D....with a missile that is the exact same shape as JAGM/Hellfire, same CoG, same mounting points, compatible with standard laser designators etc...a missile that has even been fired from AH-64E on multiple occasions in the 'most aggressive test shots Ive seen'...to quote a Boeing representative....as integration efforts go a lot of risk had already been removed by the nature of Brimstone. Would there be risk? Yes, there always is. But it doesn't stack up when you realise that JAGM has been repeatedly delayed and there was risk to that integration as well....

Quite frankly its very hard to justify the MoD's budget when they pull stunts like this...

The cost of this contract is £781m

Integration of Brimstone to AH-64E was expected to cost £50m, but lets play the game and say it would have cost way more, say double...£100m.

That leaves you with £681m to spend on missiles...that is 5,500 Brimstone (assuming a reasonable cost of $150k).

If we only really wanted 3,000 in total we could have saved £300m....

And to put that in perspective thats a tram system in a large town, a small hospital, a Type 31 frigate or 50 additional CR3 for the Army...

And thats before we get into the tax benefits and employment in the UK, plus export opportunities...
We also need to take into account that Brimstone will be used by land vehicles in the overwatch role so the extra 2500 to 3000 could have been dished out to the brigades 500 each

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by Timmymagic »

Tempest414 wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 12:23 We also need to take into account that Brimstone will be used by land vehicles in the overwatch role so the extra 2500 to 3000 could have been dished out to the brigades 500 each
Correct.

The order would have needed an extra production line set up as well. MBDA already have the capability to produce 95 per month, but 2 hot production lines bring the unit price down as well....more jobs, more tax, more sovereign capability (I mean thats a thing now...).

Army procurement are absolute clowns...

I could almost understand APKWS...although APKWS units on CRV7 would have been ideal...

But this is just incredible.

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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by NickC »

The US Army have a programme to equip their Apache helos with longer range NLOS ATGW missiles to replace the short range Longbow and JAGM, no doubt reflecting the high losses incurred by the Russian attack helos in Ukraine when using their short range ATGW missiles by Ukrainian MANPADS e.g. StarStreak etc.

Totally fail to understand the thinking of the MOD/Generals spending a $1 billion on the short range JAGM.

Even the Russians have seen the light and developing a longer range guided helicopter missile Project 305 LMUR, a 105 kg; 25 kg warhead; 1945 mm x 200 mm; 14.5 km range with thermal imager, tracked by radio and in the final guidance section it can be retargeted by command of the crew of Mi-28N and Ka-52.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/air- ... elicopter/
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Re: Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

Post by SD67 »

Timmymagic wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 12:41
Tempest414 wrote: 24 Oct 2023, 12:23 We also need to take into account that Brimstone will be used by land vehicles in the overwatch role so the extra 2500 to 3000 could have been dished out to the brigades 500 each
Correct.

The order would have needed an extra production line set up as well. MBDA already have the capability to produce 95 per month, but 2 hot production lines bring the unit price down as well....more jobs, more tax, more sovereign capability (I mean thats a thing now...).

Army procurement are absolute clowns...

I could almost understand APKWS...although APKWS units on CRV7 would have been ideal...

But this is just incredible.
I bet Army still have their hearts set on a FMS purchase of the JLTV, despite the Land Industrial Strategy.
Plus a few more Israeli drones, then surely a big PzH 2000 purchase with zero UK content,
Then XM7
and maybe £100k G-Wagens to replace the Landrovers

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