Apache Attack Helicopter (British Army Air Corps)

[Gabriele]

The value of the contract with Boeing is just one part of the total cost of the purchase. All the Government-furnished equipment / parts supplied by other companies is covered by separate contracts.

Fast backwards to the DSCA authorization for the Qatar Apache purchase which allowed this contract to happen... and the total cost when all items (including a lot of weapons, in their case) are included is up to 3 billion USD. http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/qa ... elicopters

700 million is just a part of the money they will be spending for this purchase. The UK purchase will be no different.

[Ron5]

The value of the contract with Boeing is just one part of the total cost of the purchase. All the Government-furnished equipment / parts supplied by other companies is covered by separate contracts.

Fast backwards to the DSCA authorization for the Qatar Apache purchase which allowed this contract to happen... and the total cost when all items (including a lot of weapons, in their case) are included is up to 3 billion USD. http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/qa ... elicopters

700 million is just a part of the money they will be spending for this purchase. The UK purchase will be no different.

Foreign sales approvals are notorious for being very high, rough estimates. You should know this.

[Gabriele]

They are "rough" estimates mostly because they authorize to buy "up to N" things. And then the contract can end up having a lot less of this, or a lot less of that than was requested (never more than authorized. That would require a new authorization). Qatar is not getting 24 Apache for 700 million, full stop. That's just the first part of the expense.

[marktigger]

how does the New engines compare to the old? will it give better performnce?
does the E have a folding rotor?

[Ron5]

how does the New engines compare to the old? will it give better performnce?
does the E have a folding rotor?

Yes, better than both the previous version and the previous UK version. Probably not. Probably could be added to UK's.

[Ron5]

They are "rough" estimates mostly because they authorize to buy "up to N" things. And then the contract can end up having a lot less of this, or a lot less of that than was requested (never more than authorized. That would require a new authorization). Qatar is not getting 24 Apache for 700 million, full stop. That's just the first part of the expense.

Nobody claimed otherwise. Full stop.

Foreign sales auth do not use final negotiated contract pricing regardless of quantities.

[Gabriele]

Nobody claimed otherwise. Full stop.

Foreign sales auth do not use final negotiated contract pricing regardless of quantities.

Then please do tell what was this

2nd to last para of interest to UK readers.

Incidentally, maybe the MoD should get Qatar to negotiate on their behalf, 24 brand new Apache E's plus other stuff for under $700 million. Good deal.

supposed to mean / imply.

[Ron5]

Nobody claimed otherwise. Full stop.

Foreign sales auth do not use final negotiated contract pricing regardless of quantities.

Then please do tell what was this

2nd to last para of interest to UK readers.

Incidentally, maybe the MoD should get Qatar to negotiate on their behalf, 24 brand new Apache E's plus other stuff for under $700 million. Good deal.

supposed to mean / imply.

Means what it says.

[Jdam]

MBDA Preparing To Conduct Brimstone 2 Missile Test With Apache

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /85918772/

I guess we will see if anything comes of this, seems strange its taken us this long to do it.

[bobp]

MBDA Preparing To Conduct Brimstone 2 Missile Test With Apachehttp://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/show- ... 85918772/I guess we will see if anything comes of this, seems strange its taken us this long to do it.

Also the test firing is from a 64E version.

[Ron5]

God news for the UK if accurate ..

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/boeing- ... eate-jobs/

[shark bait]

Very good deal if true

[bobp]

So is Boeing taking over UK Apache production at Yeovil?

[RichardIC]

No there won't be Apache production in Yeovil. The UK will piggy-back on the current US Army deal to upgrade around 500 AH-64D to AH-64E standard. All work would be carried out in the US.

Good news: The UK gets 50 "new" Apaches for a bargain basement price
Bad news: No work for Yeovil

[bobp]

So Leonardo Helicopters, will be struggling at its Yeovil plant. As Wildcat production runs down, Apache goes to Boeing and no further Merlins on the Horizon.

[Ron5]

Re-reading the article, all the Boeing guy said is that Boeing UK would expand if the UK places more contracts with Boeing.

That statement doesn't support the headline.

[bobp]

Apache Helicopters ordered from Boeing as anticipated...https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mod- ... s-for-army

[marktigger]

beoing says it will create 2000 jobs now is that on top of the ones they already had is it to support all beoing products

[bobp]

This may explain things as regards to cost....http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... -vote.html

[Gabriele]

Regarding prices and currency, what i think many have completely overlooked is that budgets are planned out with an assumed exchange rate, and then adjusted in one sense or another over time. The assumed exchange value will normally be set at prudent level, below the concurrent exchange rate.

For example, the Airbus A400M has a budget which is allocated yearly on an assumption of 1.20 euro to a poud. Last year, since the average was actually 1.36 to 1, there was a significant saving, resulting in underspend against what had been allocated. This also reduces the impact of current devaluation of the pound, as the drop to 1.17, on a budget set for 1.20, is clearly far less challenging than having planned for 1.36.

I don't know what the assumed exchange rate was for the dollar programmes, but it might have been in the region of 1.30, which again reduces the impact (even before hedging is factored in) on the MOD allocations.

For sure, a weaker pound is not the most welcome of news in this area, but there are defences.

[marktigger]

yeovil have the HC3 conversion program to do and there have been some wildcats ordered

[Timmymagic]

What happens to the UK Apaches in service now? Are they that shagged out after ops in Helmand? Given that we never had more than 8 in theatre from a buy of 67 , they can't be in that bad a state surely? I'm sure the MoD has done the usual cannibalizing to keep the fleet going, and there is no doubt that they performed sterling service in Afghanistan.

Is there some Eastern European NATO state rubbing their hands with glee right now? Or do the issues with support mean that from 2022 after 15 years of service they're effectively scrapped?

[arfah]

O.P.S.E.C.

[Timmymagic]

It was the use of the word 'new' that threw me....I guess it means something different to the MoD.

Does this mean that the Merlin fleet is going to have enough engine spares to last a lifetime?

[bobp]

The new models use different engines. Basically the contract is to re manufacture the Apache to the latest standard. Remanufacture means that the current Helicopters will be stripped down and then be totally rebuilt with new parts including engines. When they leave the production line they will be as new.