Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Contains threads on Joint Service equipment of the past, present and future.
jonas
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by jonas »

Jdam wrote:There is no real easy answer to this problem, we run a Competition and need to wait even longer for the MPA to become available and if we buy off the shelf we might get shafted on price :|
I don't think that we will get shafted on price, yes the yanks want us to buy their product but they also want to be able to work very closely with the UK in this area of warfare. Having a common platform can only be good for both of us.
At least they won't have to keep sending their aircraft to the UK, every time we get a scare over some foreign boat in our waters.

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Gabriele
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by Gabriele »

Nobody gives a fuck about the americans using it or not using it.

The issue is more serious: if the americans use it, "it" tends to get constant attention and a long, assured development over the years that keeps it up to date.
If you settle for a "frankenstein" C-130 solution you are alone every step of the way onwards. That's where the Nimrod nightmare comes in. Or the Challenger 2 rifled, 2-piece ammo nightmare. Choose the one you like the most.

If you settle for C-295, you are pinning hopes on sharing development and upgrade costs with the likes of Mexico and Chile. Good luck!

If you settle for an half-arsed solution, the option of using the same aircraft for also replacing Sentinel goes out of the window. Then you have to keep two separate fleets going. Is there the money and manpower for it? I fear another fratricide struggle a few years down the line, in which one of the two dies because there are resources for only one. (Sea Harrier and Harrier GR7, one dies one becomes GR9; Harrier and Tornado, one dies one stays...).

And any MPA that is procured should have actually good ASW kit installed, which in this day and age means multi-static active coherent sonobuoys.


If any aircraft that is not P-8 has good answers to these problems, it is welcome.

But for what i can see, no other candidate checks all the boxes.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Geoff_B
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by Geoff_B »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34896956?p ... 877286#_=_

Well that's One way to highlight the need for a new MPA ASAP in tomorrows SDSR !!!!! :shock:

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Dave
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by Dave »

Sky News are now reporting (source as 10 Downing Street) that 9 P8's are to be ordered.

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Gabriele
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by Gabriele »

Dave wrote:Sky News are now reporting (source as 10 Downing Street) that 9 P8's are to be ordered.
Telegraph wrote the same in an article. We'll see.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Jdam
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by Jdam »

Jim getting to keep his hat :lol:

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Dave
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by Dave »

Gabriele wrote:
Dave wrote:Sky News are now reporting (source as 10 Downing Street) that 9 P8's are to be ordered.
Telegraph wrote the same in an article. We'll see.
Nothing on their website yet, but discussed in the report about the announcement of the increase in anti-terrorism funding and the F35's. Seems number 10 is briefing lots of details in advance of tomorrow.

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shark bait
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ls-it.html
We will establish two additional Typhoon squadrons and an additional squadron of F35 Lightning combat aircraft to operate from our new aircraft carriers. And we will invest in nine maritime patrol aircraft to protect our nuclear deterrent, hunt down hostile submarines and enhance our maritime search and rescue. Not one of these capabilities is an optional extra or an act of vanity. These investments are an act of clear-eyed self-interest to ensure our prosperity and security.
Holy shit!

That actually sounds quite definitive.
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Geoff_B
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by Geoff_B »

For this and for any other tasks that may arise in future, this Government will ensure that our Armed Forces always have the capabilities they need. Over the last five years we have reconfigured Britain’s Armed Forces so they are able to deal with modern and evolving threats. Over the next decade we will invest more than £178 billion in buying and maintaining equipment – including doubling our investment in equipment to support our Special Forces. We will create two new strike brigades, forces of up to 5,000 personnel each, fully equipped to deploy rapidly and sustain themselves in the field.

We will establish two additional Typhoon squadrons and an additional squadron of F35 Lightning combat aircraft to operate from our new aircraft carriers. And we will invest in nine maritime patrol aircraft to protect our nuclear deterrent, hunt down hostile submarines and enhance our maritime search and rescue. Not one of these capabilities is an optional extra or an act of vanity. These investments are an act of clear-eyed self-interest to ensure our prosperity and security.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ls-it.html

Its a bit hidden away but its there....

Interesting to see if that F-35 sqdn is light blue or dark blue !

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SKB
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by SKB »

I'm sorry, but I can't help thinking that buying more US equipment is just twisting the knife in the back a bit more of those British personnel who worked in the various Nimrod programmes. Are these P8's really any more capable than what Nimrod could do? And more than what the MRA4 was hoped to do?

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shark bait
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by shark bait »

Just echoing what has been said by others, but the P8 is far more supportable than Nimrod.
@LandSharkUK

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malcrf
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by malcrf »

jonas wrote:At least they won't have to keep sending their aircraft to the UK, every time we get a scare over some foreign boat in our waters
I thought it was a French Atlantique that's currently helping us look for a Russian sub?

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malcrf
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by malcrf »

Gabriele wrote:If you settle for a "frankenstein" C-130 solution you are alone every step of the way onwards. That's where the Nimrod nightmare comes in. Or the Challenger 2 rifled, 2-piece ammo nightmare. Choose the one you like the most.
I thought the Nimrod nightmare was the hand manufactured airframes not matching the new wings, not the electronics we were planning on putting in it?

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malcrf
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by malcrf »

Gabriele wrote:If any aircraft that is not P-8 has good answers to these problems, it is welcome.

But for what i can see, no other candidate checks all the boxes.
P1?

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RichardIC
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by RichardIC »

The Guardian now reporting that we are going for P8.
Cameron will also announce on Monday the purchase of nine new Boeing P8 maritime patrol aircraft for surveillance, anti-submarine and anti-surface ship warfare. They will replace the Nimrod aircraft scrapped in 2010 that left a glaring hole in the ability to detect enemy submarines in UK waters, such as at the entry point to the submarine base in Faslane.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... nce-review

I just want this over with.

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CR4ZYHOR5E
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by CR4ZYHOR5E »

BBC also reporting 9 P8s

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RichardIC
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by RichardIC »

David Cameron will today effectively reverse his own decision with an announcement to buy nine Boeing P8 maritime patrol aircraft from the US Navy.
The Times too.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/d ... 621020.ece

imperialman
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by imperialman »


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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The snippets (linked to above) from the SDSR foreword mean that we have adopted a one and a half wars strategy; the same as the USA has had since Nixon's opening with China (even though the one in the one & a half has switched back to the Pacific since; building back to the Cold War era two and a half was, and is, beyond even the USA's resources).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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shark bait
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by shark bait »

imperialman wrote:The MoD are also saying it. :lol:
Incredible news, I was well prepared for a competition to push the purchase out a few planning cycles, but this news seems pretty definitive.
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xav
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by xav »

UK Government to Fill MPA Gap and Order 9 Boeing P-8A Poseidon Maritime Patrol Aircraft
UK Prime Minister David Cameron will announce today a £178 billion investment in defence equipment and support over the next decade as part of a new Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR). The £12 billion uplift in funding will be focused on investments that will help to ensure the UK can respond to diverse threats and includes nine new P-8A Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA). UK currently has an MPA capability gap since the last Nimrod MR2 MPA was retired in 2010.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=3257

What about torpedo ? UK will procure Mk 54 or will pay for Stingray integration ?
What about Harpoon (UK doesn't have AGM-84 anymore) ?
And just like Nimrod, they'll be flown by the RAF ?

downsizer
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by downsizer »

I'm shocked [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND SMILING EYES][SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND SMILING EYES]

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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by arfah »

downsizer wrote:I'm shocked [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND SMILING EYES][SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND SMILING EYES]
Sarcasm, DS?

Or genuinely and pleasantly surprised
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downsizer
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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by downsizer »

Sarcasm old bean. I said all along p8 or we were out of the game.

Good result IMO.

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Re: Future UK Maritime Patrol Options

Post by arfah »

downsizer wrote:Sarcasm old bean. I said all along p8 or we were out of the game.

Good result IMO.
As I suspected, although the style of your post did catch me a little off guard.

Where's Jimthelad? He must be flipping cartwheels?!

Especially after all the doubter comments sent his way.
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