UK Complex Weapons Thread

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Aethulwulf
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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Aethulwulf »

It is reported in Jane's that the French Navy is going to equip its new HIL helicopters (Airbus H160) with the Sea Venom missile, with an expected ISD in the mid-2020s. This means it will now not be integrated with their NH90 or AS565 Panther helicopters.

France is planning to buy between 160 and 190 HIL helicopters for all three French services, which will replace their Alouette II, Dauphin SP and Fennel fleets.

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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by RetroSicotte »

Also reported that the French have cancelled plans to put Sea Venom on Panther and NH90.

No wonder they've dragged their feet this whole time, made the program late, left us with a gap just because they barely cared for it in the end and are happy to sit with that gap forever.

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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Frenchie »

At the last news the ANL (Sea Venom) will be embarked on the HIL 160, it is the navy that will touch the first 12 copies in support version in 2022 and then in combat version in 2024. The version support will embark on "FLOTLOG" (Logistic transport ships) and the CdG. The combat version will embark on the FLF and the future "BATSIMAR" (offshore patrollers of the Gowind family).

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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Timmymagic »

RetroSicotte wrote:Also reported that the French have cancelled plans to put Sea Venom on Panther and NH90.
Yep. Thats just killed off some opportunity for exports. That's the sort of thing we do...the French are supposed to be smarter....NH-90 is only cleared for Marte mk 2, which is a big missile with limited usage. Seems like NH-90 is going to be ASW only like Merlin, which given Naval helicopter combat usage over the last 35 years seems incredibly short sighted. Surprisingly, the Norwegians don't appear to have integrated NSM/JSM on theirs. They usually don't scrimp on stuff like that, Penguin is unlikely to be integrated as its on its way out. Even then they're both big missiles.

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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Frenchie »

It's because of the very high integration costs on a platform that the Marine Nationale will not get the funding needed to equip its NH90s and the future HIL helicopters, it is only a question of money. Otherwise the NH90 could very well be equipped with the ANL / Sea Venom.

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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Timmymagic »

Anyone got any opinions on this?

http://www.mbda-systems.com/press-relea ... y-weapons/

The Smartglider Light looks to have the exact same size and shape as SPEAR, without the turbojet. Is this an effort to produce a cheaper glide version that won't need as much testing on F-35 and Typhoon to reduce costs? An attempt to lure people away from SDBII and see if they will buy Smartglider and SPEAR together?

The larger Smartglider Heavy is 2,000lb class weapon and also claims to have 100km range. Is this MBDA's attempt to gain some marketshare back from Safran's AASM and the lighter Raytheon Paveway IV? Or is it an attempt to pitch a heavier weapon to the RAF to replace EPWII and EPWIII?

Any thoughts?

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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Defiance »

Fills a gap in their portfolio, glide weapons are fairly popular and is there a glide bomb which goes as heavy as 2000lb class?

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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Timmymagic »

Defiance wrote:Fills a gap in their portfolio, glide weapons are fairly popular and is there a glide bomb which goes as heavy as 2000lb class?
I think Israel has a Spice kit that goes to 2,000lb and the German HOSBO is similar. Both are eye wateringly expensive for what they are. There was also MBDA's Diamondback wing on the JDAM-ER, not sure if that went above 500/1000lb size though. For the US you tend to go into JSOW territory then.

Looking at this I can get the idea of the Smartglider Light as a sort of SPEAR budget version. MBDA are essentially doing a Hellfire/Brimstone but with SPEAR. The UK to all intents and purposes will be paying for a substantial amount of any integration costs by funding SPEAR on the F-35 and Typhoon. And MBDA get a direct competitor to SBDI and to a degree SDBII for comparatively little invesment, into their portfolio. It would be a larger warhead than SPEAR as well, shorter range for sure but without the larger sensor head, jet and fuel it may double the warhead size. Which could be really interesting for the UK as it gives a Sea Venom size warhead in a SPEAR shaped package. 8 SPEAR fired a warship would ruin their day, 8 of these would really ruin their day.

The 2,000lb I would have thought introduced a few more complications. Mind you the idea of matching another integrated weapon in size and shape is a genuinely smart move. You never know we might get a new 4,000lb bomb shaped like a Storm Shadow....

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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Timmymagic »



From MBDA's twitter, these may be aimed principally at France.


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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

That's quite an aggressive turn, when the rocket motor ignites - nice! Makes full use of VLS, compare with RAM that needs to be roughly pointed... like turn the launcher pod 180 degrees in a hurry ;)
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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by marktigger »

impressive launch was it launch only or was there a target and if so what was the result?

if effective we should be looking at putting them on a wider number of platforms the Carriers being No 1 then the LPD's and the larger RFA's

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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Timmymagic »

Bit of information including a CGI image on the Dragonfire Directed Energy System. Testing in 2018.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/drag ... gy-weapons

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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Timmymagic »

A slightly better image..


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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Timmymagic »

Land Ceptor. With Giraffe AMB in one image. Is that the data link or ADAD's sensor folded over on 1 mast with radar raised?


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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Timmymagic »

Great time lapse picture of Sea Ceptor launch..


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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Timmymagic »

And last but not least. Suspect that CAMM-L is loaded in the same way given the attachments on the system.


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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by Timmymagic »

Alright one more...CAMM-ER (bottom right). Same launch vehicle, both masts raised.


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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

They (the manufacturers) forgot to specify where the 30%
"soft-launch technology that is 30% more efficient than a 'hot' launch"
is calculated from
- on the other thread I quoted it for the length of the silos required, relaxing other parameters in a ship design

Mk41 was also mentioned so it's here
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-86-pF8pNnTo/ ... 08-053.jpg
for scale
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The first entry to this thread spoke of SPEAR and now the contract for its internal carriage (2 x 4) has been let!

Sampson does not have its own thread (?) so the latest news from across the pond (in this case as far as Hawaii, where the testing was done): the equivalent now does not need to choose between modes, but can defend (with suitable weapons) against v different threats, simultaneously
" the Navy said that preliminary data from the test showed the system met its primary objectives against a complex short-range ballistic missile and multiple air-to-surface cruise missile simultaneous targets. they will be equipped on US Navy DDG 51 Flight III destroyers."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

RetroSicotte
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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by RetroSicotte »

Cheers for the update. Probably good got a T45 thread update!

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SKB
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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

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whitelancer
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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by whitelancer »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:They (the manufacturers) forgot to specify where the 30% "soft-launch technology that is 30% more efficient than a 'hot' launch"is calculated from
I am no expert, but you will note that missiles that use trainable launchers have smaller boosters than equivalent VLS missiles. I believe this is because a VL missile expends energy first to travel vertically and then manoeuvring to achieve the correct trajectory, when launched from a trainable launcher all the energy is expended in the right direction. With CAMM, having been ejected from the launch tube the turn over manoeuvre points the missile in the right direction before the rocket motor ignites, in effect achieving the same result as though launched from a trainable launcher. This is I'm guessing where the 30% figure comes from.

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Re: UK Complex Weapons Thread

Post by RetroSicotte »

Saw a report on Janes IHS this morning that the RAF is interested in a lower end 'small' munition to fit between Paveway IV and Brimstone II.

The report seems to have disappeared since though, it was just an "RAF source", so possibly someone got a slap on the wrist, or Janes felt the report didn't have enough info yet to publish properly.

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