Panavia Tornado (RAF)

[arfah]

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[seaspear]

It would not be hard for the Tornado to be sent off with a range of munitions ,and often enough these targets would have been discovered previously by other means prior to sending off the Tornado so that appropriate munitions should of been able to be loaded

[marktigger]

one of the reasons you need aircraft with multiple hardpoints(the more the better) to carry mixed nature loads

[downsizer]

GR4 uses 27mm in place of CRV7. More than 1 way to skin a cat.

[marktigger]

funny use of the cannon was being played down in discussion about the F35 cannon.

[downsizer]

Not by anyone with any sense.

[marktigger]

yes the decision to try and eliminate the cannon on Typhoon was short sighted in the extreme

[downsizer]

yes the decision to try and eliminate the cannon on Typhoon was short sighted in the extreme

Blame bean counters. Deleted to save money in an earlier Planning Round.

[marktigger]

yeap and it worked out a whole lot more expensive than the savings they envisaged!

[Gabriele]

GR4 uses 27mm in place of CRV7. More than 1 way to skin a cat.

Are they honestly comparable...? I mean, yes, Harrier used rockets also for lack of a gun. But CRV-7 utility and effect clearly goes well beyond that of the gun alone.

[downsizer]

GR4 uses 27mm in place of CRV7. More than 1 way to skin a cat.

Are they honestly comparable...? I mean, yes, Harrier used rockets also for lack of a gun. But CRV-7 utility and effect clearly goes well beyond that of the gun alone.

Yes. GR4 27mm is amazingly accurate and powerful. I would not want to be hosed down by it. Nor CRV7 to be fair.

[arfah]

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[Gabriele]

GR4 uses 27mm in place of CRV7. More than 1 way to skin a cat.

Are they honestly comparable...? I mean, yes, Harrier used rockets also for lack of a gun. But CRV-7 utility and effect clearly goes well beyond that of the gun alone.

Yes. GR4 27mm is amazingly accurate and powerful. I would not want to be hosed down by it. Nor CRV7 to be fair.

I don't doubt it would be unpleasant to be on the receiving end. But what i meant is that i don't think the CRV-7 and the gun are in any way a replacement for each other. In particular, i don't think the gun does equate the rockets. Harrier had no gun and Tornado has no CRV-7, but that is not how it should ideally be. Having a gun and also access to the rockets, now that would be the right thing.
CRV-7, from MOD numbers, seem to have been by far the most heavily employed air weapon in Afghanistan, with just short of 5000 fired by Harrier alone, and many, many more by Apache, no doubt (sadly no number for Apache fired rockets has been provided).
Isn't CRV-7 and/or any one of the laser-guided rockets becoming available a weapon worth a long term place in the arsenal for fixed wing aircraft, as well as on Apache...?

[Tony Williams]

Isn't CRV-7 and/or any one of the laser-guided rockets becoming available a weapon worth a long term place in the arsenal for fixed wing aircraft, as well as on Apache...?

Yes. There are at least four different projects to produce laser-guided versions of the old 70mm rockets like the CVR7. Some of them are already in service in helos and they are due to be used in fast jets too (not sure of the specifics of that). They can generally hit within one metre of the aiming mark at a range of several kilometres, which is much more accurate than a gun as well as being longer-ranged, and they cost much less than Hellfire/Brimstone (I've seen figures down to $10,000 quoted but can't confirm that - some are new-build, some are conversion kits).

Various different warheads are available for these rockets. Perhaps the most interesting potential development would be a prox or time fuzed AHEAD-type airburst to send a cone-shaped shotgun blast of heavy pellets forwards. This would be highly effective in the anti-personnel role, which current aircraft guns and ammo are not actually that good at.

[marktigger]

if ROE's get tightened they will soon need to put guidance on cannon rounds to prevent incidents......or is it now going to far and soon we won't be able to have any sort of support from air or indirect fire?

[seaspear]

I know I'm off the thread with this but an aircraft like the A130 j "spooky" can with use of its 105mm cannon deliver accurate shell fire quicker than expensive guided missiles and being closer quicker and at costs of shells in the hundreds of dollars compared to missiles being in the tens of thousands much cheaper , costs of using the more expensive missiles are likely by the bean counters to be passed onto other areas of defence budget procurement .

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

Isn't CRV-7 and/or any one of the laser-guided rockets becoming available a weapon worth a long term place in the arsenal for fixed wing aircraft, as well as on Apache...?

Yes. There are at least four different projects to produce laser-guided versions of the old 70mm rockets like the CVR7. Some of them are already in service in helos and they are due to be used in fast jets too (not sure of the specifics of that). They can generally hit within one metre of the aiming mark at a range of several kilometres, which is much more accurate than a gun as well as being longer-ranged, and they cost much less than Hellfire/Brimstone (I've seen figures down to $10,000 quoted but can't confirm that - some are new-build, some are conversion kits).

Various different warheads are available for these rockets. Perhaps the most interesting potential development would be a prox or time fuzed AHEAD-type airburst to send a cone-shaped shotgun blast of heavy pellets forwards. This would be highly effective in the anti-personnel role, which current aircraft guns and ammo are not actually that good at.

Intended for our lot [the UK]??? Is this a formalised requirement going in to the future then - the Army/Air Force looking for guided 70mm rockets?

[marktigger]

L118 round last price i heard was £1800 that was a good 7 years ago

[Gabriele]

Isn't CRV-7 and/or any one of the laser-guided rockets becoming available a weapon worth a long term place in the arsenal for fixed wing aircraft, as well as on Apache...?

Yes. There are at least four different projects to produce laser-guided versions of the old 70mm rockets like the CVR7. Some of them are already in service in helos and they are due to be used in fast jets too (not sure of the specifics of that). They can generally hit within one metre of the aiming mark at a range of several kilometres, which is much more accurate than a gun as well as being longer-ranged, and they cost much less than Hellfire/Brimstone (I've seen figures down to $10,000 quoted but can't confirm that - some are new-build, some are conversion kits).

Various different warheads are available for these rockets. Perhaps the most interesting potential development would be a prox or time fuzed AHEAD-type airburst to send a cone-shaped shotgun blast of heavy pellets forwards. This would be highly effective in the anti-personnel role, which current aircraft guns and ammo are not actually that good at.

Intended for our lot [the UK]??? Is this a formalised requirement going in to the future then - the Army/Air Force looking for guided 70mm rockets?

No, unfortunately it is not a UK requirement, at least so far. But there are loads of projects all over the world for similar products. An inertial and laser guided CRV-7 adaptation is offered on the market since 2006 or so, and it really could be a nice little investment to make.

[Tony Williams]

No, unfortunately it is not a UK requirement, at least so far. But there are loads of projects all over the world for similar products. An inertial and laser guided CRV-7 adaptation is offered on the market since 2006 or so, and it really could be a nice little investment to make.

Indeed it could. IIRC at least one of the projects uses a SAL system which is compatible with the laser designator for dual-mode Brimstone, so it should be very little trouble to adopt.

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

More's the pity. Seems like a good thing to have, as you say.

[Ebro]

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/375/cpsp ... 50e1a2.jpg

Looks like 12 Sqn get another reprieve

[arfah]

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[hovematlot]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33762564

Anti ISIL strikes in Iraq extended to March 2016

Think it's March 2017.

[arfah]

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