Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Commonality between Packages 1 & 2 has been ditched long ago... So I wonder if '2' will still go ahead? Even then the talk has been about only the first half of the indicated rqrmnt
- need to switch from front line armoured ambulances to a faster but still protected one as part of the care chain has been mentioned
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

leonard
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by leonard »

In the meantime a new kid has arrived in the block and is a beast (here comparing it with the G-wagon wich it will replace).

RunningStrong
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by RunningStrong »

leonard wrote: 31 May 2022, 17:24 In the meantime a new kid has arrived in the block and is a beast (here comparing it with the G-wagon wich it will replace).
I don't think British Army will touch an Iveco base platform any time soon...

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Timmymagic »

RunningStrong wrote: 31 May 2022, 17:46 I don't think British Army will touch an Iveco base platform any time soon...
Not after Panther...

Think the Army might be waking up to the Gov's Prosperity Agenda and onshoring...

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Tempest414
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

Timmymagic wrote: 31 May 2022, 14:21 Thank christ for that.....

JLTV dead. Hopefully we'll buy a Uk solution...ahem Foxhound.

Well as we have Foxhound and Jackal and as I said I think we should buy 800 or so Bushmasters and then look to design and build a replacement for both Foxhound and Jackal

As it now looks like we will have to keep what we have which is

400 Jackal
70 Coyote
400 Foxhound
250 Husky
150 Panther
300 Mastiff
150 Ridgebacks

I think we should be able to get 6 Battalion battle groups of

1 x Cavalry company = 30 jackals & 6 Coyotes
1 x Infantry Battalion = 10 Panthers , 50 Foxhounds , 35 Mastiffs
1 x Logistics support Group = MAN 6x6 /8x8 , Husky
1 x Artillery support group
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Tempest414
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

Timmymagic wrote: 31 May 2022, 17:51
RunningStrong wrote: 31 May 2022, 17:46 I don't think British Army will touch an Iveco base platform any time soon...
Not after Panther...

Think the Army might be waking up to the Gov's Prosperity Agenda and onshoring...
It still looks like we have a number of Panthers as I have seen them on 3 Ex's over the last few months acting as comm's for Armoured infantry

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by RunningStrong »

Tempest414 wrote: 31 May 2022, 18:15
Timmymagic wrote: 31 May 2022, 17:51
RunningStrong wrote: 31 May 2022, 17:46 I don't think British Army will touch an Iveco base platform any time soon...
Not after Panther...

Think the Army might be waking up to the Gov's Prosperity Agenda and onshoring...
It still looks like we have a number of Panthers as I have seen them on 3 Ex's over the last few months acting as comm's for Armoured infantry
Not surprising, but the Theatre Entry Standard with increased armour and a RWS will not see the light of day again. Complete disaster.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by SD67 »

Tempest414 wrote: 31 May 2022, 18:12
As it now looks like we will have to keep what we have which is

400 Jackal
70 Coyote
400 Foxhound
250 Husky
150 Panther
300 Mastiff
150 Ridgebacks
But what about next year after they've all been donated to Ukraine? :-)

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Tempest414
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

sol wrote: 31 May 2022, 14:36
Timmymagic wrote: 31 May 2022, 14:21 JLTV dead. Hopefully we'll buy a Uk solution...ahem Foxhound.
If I am not wrong, Foxhound production was closed years ago. So I doubt it is an option, in fact it was also supposed to eventually be replaced with MRV-P. Considering this part from Shephard article ...
A spokesperson for the UK MoD confirmed to Shephard that the army has ended the proposed MRV-P Package 1, which comprised acquisition of JLTVs. ‘This difficult decision took into consideration affordability and the requirement to deliver several major army programmes within the same period,’ the official stressed.
... whole program might be further delayed and the Army should stick with current vehicles for some time
Isn't the Foxhound under GDUK now and still being offered in different forms like utility and WMIK

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by RunningStrong »

Tempest414 wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 10:08 Isn't the Foxhound under GDUK now and still being offered in different forms like utility and WMIK
It has been displayed at DVD years ago (4?) In that format. But there's been no business wins so it's pretty much a legacy line now with no manufacturing facility.



Speaking of DVD, this has really put the cat amongst the pigeons. I imagine BD departments are madly seeing what if anything they could/should show for DVD2022 that might fit the MoD budget and appetite for risk.
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sol
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by sol »

Tempest414 wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 10:08 Isn't the Foxhound under GDUK now and still being offered in different forms like utility and WMIK
Force Protection Europe, which designed Foxhound, was acquired by GD in 2011. Not sure what that does have with anything as last vehicles were delivered a long ago, there was no further orders, no other country ever bought them and line is closed.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

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sol wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 12:19
Tempest414 wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 10:08 Isn't the Foxhound under GDUK now and still being offered in different forms like utility and WMIK
Force Protection Europe, which designed Foxhound, was acquired by GD in 2011. Not sure what that does have with anything as last vehicles were delivered a long ago, there was no further orders, no other country ever bought them and line is closed.
Yes I know all this but GD do have the rights and I guess the line stored some where I am not saying they should just that maybe they could however it is more likely they would push Eagle V

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Lord Jim »

Price is going to be a key driver in the MRV(P) programme. It also looks like we could be using Boxer for a number of the duties that were originally going to be those of the MRV(P). At least one of our two Light BCTs needs to be Motorised, as does at least part of the Ranger Regiment. The often mentioned Bushmaster would be the perfect core vehicle for troop carrying and specialist roles, working with the Jackal who will provide Recce and fire support. AS for a Foxhound replacement, well we are really spoilt for choice, but I think the numbers required will dictate whether we go for the platforms being UK manufactured, especially the lighter 4x4 platform.

In the meantime we do have enough paltfronms from the hundreds purchased under UORs and brought into the core budget to Motorise a number of Company and Battalion based groups that we may wish to deploy, so there is little sense of urgency. We need to concentrate in putting the pieces and capabilities that ae needed to make the Heavy BCTs properly equipped and viable combat units. It is a shame as for only a small amount of new money we could bring in teh two MRV(P) platforms and equip the two formations listed ablve.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

RunningStrong wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 12:00
Tempest414 wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 10:08 Isn't the Foxhound under GDUK now and still being offered in different forms like utility and WMIK
It has been displayed at DVD years ago (4?) In that format. But there's been no business wins so it's pretty much a legacy line now with no manufacturing facility.



Speaking of DVD, this has really put the cat amongst the pigeons. I imagine BD departments are madly seeing what if anything they could/should show for DVD2022 that might fit the MoD budget and appetite for risk.


I feel if someone could come up with a good Package of 1400 vehicles over 10 years at a cost of 500,000 per unit to include

APC
C&C
SP Mortar
Air defence
Anti tank
Utility
Medic
Engineer

there could be in with a shot

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by SW1 »

JLTV and bushmaster are nearly the same size there is only a couple of feet in length difference.

I hope we don’t have another drawn out saga, really do feel with lessons from Ukraine with this vehicle type and integration with nlos precision munitions it has truely transformation possibilities for swaths of the army. Something that is producible in the U.K. and with independent integration options should be the goal. If oshkosh had offered that I’m sure it would of been selected.

Something to consider

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by RunningStrong »

Tempest414 wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 18:53
RunningStrong wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 12:00
Tempest414 wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 10:08 Isn't the Foxhound under GDUK now and still being offered in different forms like utility and WMIK
It has been displayed at DVD years ago (4?) In that format. But there's been no business wins so it's pretty much a legacy line now with no manufacturing facility.



Speaking of DVD, this has really put the cat amongst the pigeons. I imagine BD departments are madly seeing what if anything they could/should show for DVD2022 that might fit the MoD budget and appetite for risk.


I feel if someone could come up with a good Package of 1400 vehicles over 10 years at a cost of 500,000 per unit to include

APC
C&C
SP Mortar
Air defence
Anti tank
Utility
Medic
Engineer

there could be in with a shot
Question is, what are MoD willing to compromise on? Because the size, weight, protection and integration that they want for the price doesn't seem achievable...

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

RunningStrong wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 22:54
Tempest414 wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 18:53
RunningStrong wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 12:00
Tempest414 wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 10:08 Isn't the Foxhound under GDUK now and still being offered in different forms like utility and WMIK
It has been displayed at DVD years ago (4?) In that format. But there's been no business wins so it's pretty much a legacy line now with no manufacturing facility.



Speaking of DVD, this has really put the cat amongst the pigeons. I imagine BD departments are madly seeing what if anything they could/should show for DVD2022 that might fit the MoD budget and appetite for risk.


I feel if someone could come up with a good Package of 1400 vehicles over 10 years at a cost of 500,000 per unit to include

APC
C&C
SP Mortar
Air defence
Anti tank
Utility
Medic
Engineer

there could be in with a shot
Question is, what are MoD willing to compromise on? Because the size, weight, protection and integration that they want for the price doesn't seem achievable...
When we look around maybe a better unit price would be £750.000 per Vehicle. Before we can compromise we need a clear set of real goals something like

Goal 1 ) To have three light armoured or mobile protected BCT's each with three battalions
Goal 2 ) To have one of the three BCT's equipped for the high North
Goal 3 ) To have the other two able to self deploy i.e no need for heavy transports
Goal 4 ) To reduce the number of vehicle types used in the force from 8 to say 4

From this set of goals we might come to think we need one BCT equipped with Viking and two equipped with say Jackal and Bushmaster from this we may think we need 400 Vikings , 1000 Bushmasters , 400 Jackals , 200 Coyote

So if a compromise is needed it would be in the number of Battalions the number of vehicles or the number of vehicle types
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by SW1 »

Interesting talk in the context of protected vehicles


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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

SW1 wrote: 07 Jun 2022, 21:01 Interesting talk in the context of protected vehicles

Yes this is what I have been talking about on the UOR vehicle thread

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Lord Jim »

Protected Vehicle are applicable to COIN style operations where as Armoured Fighting Vehicles are needed for higher intensity operations, how is tat for a conversations starter or stopper :mrgreen:

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

Well it would seem that MRV (P)'s are needed for both we must have them for COIN op's but we are seeing them used to good effect in Ukraine and I think we can agree on the high intensity of fighting taking place there.

It is now a must that we get our light infantry from the 1st division into good mobile protected vehicles

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Lord Jim »

I do not see the MRV(P) programme delivering vehicle like the types purchased under UORs for Afghanistan and Iraq. Rather then call them MRV(P) we should use the title that was previously used for the programme that resulted in our orders for teh Boxer, so call it the Multi Role Armoured Vehicle (Light). This is probably a more accurate description.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by RunningStrong »

Lord Jim wrote: 10 Jun 2022, 20:54 I do not see the MRV(P) programme delivering vehicle like the types purchased under UORs for Afghanistan and Iraq. Rather then call them MRV(P) we should use the title that was previously used for the programme that resulted in our orders for teh Boxer, so call it the Multi Role Armoured Vehicle (Light). This is probably a more accurate description.
But they're not intended to be armoured vehicles, they'd be too heavy...

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Lord Jim »

They weren't originally supposed to see combat but now they are. To clarify though I see the Bushmaster as ideal, but I prefer to not call it a "Protected" vehicle as I see it more as an armoured one because it would see combat. Would people cal the French VAB 4x4 or 6x6 a Protected platform or an armoured one? It is schematics but it is important

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

So to be clear the Army class units using vehicles like Foxhound and Mastiff as Mechanised and those in Warrior as Armoured so maybe we should call the likes of Foxhound and Bushmaster Mechanised Infantry Vehicle Light or MIV(L)

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