Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

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BB85
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by BB85 »

Patria 6x6 could cover all of the above roles, I think the base vehicle is under £1m as well which prob means it will never happen. Its even amphibious too from memory.
It would probably struggle with direct fire if it required a 120mm Canon, but could mount an unmanned 30 or 40mm turret I would have thought.

RunningStrong
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by RunningStrong »

BB85 wrote:Patria 6x6 could cover all of the above roles, I think the base vehicle is under £1m as well which prob means it will never happen. Its even amphibious too from memory.
If the budget for MRVP was £1m per platform we'd probably be buying more Foxhounds...

BB85
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by BB85 »

6x6 think will be £1m. The eagle 6x6 will cost that. Bushmaster if its coming it at 500k is it really up to the job other than a battlefield ambulance with mine protection.

sol
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by sol »

RunningStrong wrote: The list looks very questionable.

Direct fire. Is that just RWS?
Mortars. Is that just an internal stowage scheme for carrying a dismounted mortar team?
Air defence. As with mortars, is this integrated, or just a few tubes stowed in the back for RBS70 dismounted team?
Not sure what OP though with direct fire but there are proposals for JLTV with both SHORAD and 120 mm mortar versions

Image

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There was even a proposal of Supacat's HMT Extenda Mk 2 with the Elbit Cardom 81mm mortar

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I guess that many other system could have similar options. I know that Plasan Sandcat with 120mm was used by Azeries during 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war.

RunningStrong
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by RunningStrong »

sol wrote:
RunningStrong wrote: The list looks very questionable.

Direct fire. Is that just RWS?
Mortars. Is that just an internal stowage scheme for carrying a dismounted mortar team?
Air defence. As with mortars, is this integrated, or just a few tubes stowed in the back for RBS70 dismounted team?
Not sure what OP though with direct fire but there are proposals for JLTV with both SHORAD and 120 mm mortar versions
And there's a 30mm JLTV, but I've never seen these variants fully integrated into Bushmaster.


https://breakingdefense.com/2016/09/gun ... rmy-recon/

sol
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by sol »

RunningStrong wrote: And there's a 30mm JLTV, but I've never seen these variants fully integrated into Bushmaster.
For Bushmaster yes, I think you are correct. I don't think Bushmaster currently has any of those options.

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Tempest414
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

RunningStrong wrote:The list looks very questionable.

Direct fire. Is that just RWS?
Mortars. Is that just an internal stowage scheme for carrying a dismounted mortar team?
Air defence. As with mortars, is this integrated, or just a few tubes stowed in the back for RBS70 dismounted team?
You maybe right but if the 120mm mortar fits on a JLTV then it will fit on a Bushmaster also the Thales Rapid Ranger system would also fit on a Bushmaster giving it a good point defence anti air capability and some direct fires out to 7 km

Plus I would say if needed they could fit a 30mm RWS

BB85
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by BB85 »

When you see how the taliban still had plenty of trucks with machine guns mounted despite being at war with the US for 20 years, there is a lot to be said for heavily armed, highly mobile and highly dispersed small vehicles with decent mine protection. And F35 or Typhoon would obliterate a heavily armoured brigade from the air. What do you do against thousands of jltvs widely dispersed but armed to the teeth with excellent istar capabilities.

RunningStrong
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by RunningStrong »

BB85 wrote:When you see how the taliban still had plenty of trucks with machine guns mounted despite being at war with the US for 20 years, there is a lot to be said for heavily armed, highly mobile and highly dispersed small vehicles with decent mine protection. And F35 or Typhoon would obliterate a heavily armoured brigade from the air. What do you do against thousands of jltvs widely dispersed but armed to the teeth with excellent istar capabilities.
Isn't that exactly what Jackal/Coyote is?

Lord Jim
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Lord Jim »

Exactly, as are the lightweight 4x4 vehicles being trialled by the Royal Marines. To this you can add armed UAVs like Protector and in the future armed UGVs, as well as the JLTV is we ever get around to actually placing an order. 4x4s are one thing we do have a pretty good capability able to deal with them after our years in Iraq and Afghanistan. Our problem is dealing with an unconventional peer opponents who is able to effectively use all stages for warfighting.

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Tempest414
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

Moved over from the NZ thread

given that Bushmaster is well proven and well costed for me right now with all the problems with Ajax and money I would be looking to buy 1000 Bushmasters in 7 variants

Troop carrier ( 250 plan , 150 with the 25mm JC CPWS turret )
Command
SP Mortar carrier ( Fully fitted 81 or 120mm )
Air defence ( with Rapid Ranger / Starsteak , LMM )
Ambulance
Maintenance
Utility ( for logistics and 105mm towed guns )

To equip 2 full BCT's along with Jackal and MAN trucks

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Ron5 »

Both can be carried under a Chinook.

Image

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Tempest414
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

Context being

Ron5
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Ron5 »

Tempest414 wrote:Context being
The title of the thread. That's a JLTV pulling the light gun. Both able to be carried by a Chinook as opposed to a Bushmaster, which is not.

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Tempest414
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

The Chinooks will be busy lifting and supporting the Air Assault BCT and the RM that said something like this would work for them. But for me the light BCT's or Motorized battalion's will need to load their kit up and drive so the fewer vehicle types the better

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Ron5 »

Tempest414 wrote:The Chinooks will be busy lifting and supporting the Air Assault BCT and the RM that said something like this would work for them. But for me the light BCT's or Motorized battalion's will need to load their kit up and drive so the fewer vehicle types the better
Well the plan of record is JLTV's for everyone :)

Lord Jim
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Lord Jim »

Eventually! I do not think air mobility is a key capability for the Light BCTs. The RAFs Chinooks are going to be supporting 16AA, the Ranger Regt and SF along with the 1st Helicopter Brigade or whatever t is called these days. The light weight 4x4s being trialled by the RM fit inside the Chinook, as will UGVs and so on. With the Light BCTs they will rely on their innate mobility to get from A to B, though supply by Helicopter is always on the cards.

I myself, after what GD has not achieved in Wales would favour the Bushmaster, adding it to the list of programmes the Rheinmetall/BAe consortium are building. Maybe they could take over GD's Welsh assembly installation. We also need to change as little as possible with the latest version of teh vehicle, with the addition of radios being probably to only addition to start with. All the variants required are basically in existence, and any new additions can wait until the core fleet is built and delivered to the Army and possibly RAF Regiment.

RunningStrong
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by RunningStrong »

Lord Jim wrote: I myself, after what GD has not achieved in Wales would favour the Bushmaster, adding it to the list of programmes the Rheinmetall/BAe consortium are building. Maybe they could take over GD's Welsh assembly installation. We also need to change as little as possible with the latest version of teh vehicle, with the addition of radios being probably to only addition to start with. All the variants required are basically in existence, and any new additions can wait until the core fleet is built and delivered to the Army and possibly RAF Regiment.
There's so much incorrect here...

Firstly, Bushmaster is a Thales product, nothing to do with BAE or RLS. Thales have previously operated facilities in Wales (Llanelli), doing Warthog fitments for British Army use. Most those employees later ended up on Foxhound and subsequently AJAX/Warrior.

They've already modified the base platform to meet the MRV-P requirements (adding front doors).

AFAIK, the only key variants are troop carrier, command and ambulance. All others are either stowage plan (mortar, air defence, forward observation) or concept (utility).

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Mercator »

It is delivering over 1000 PMV-Ms to Army and Air Force. Seven variants of the Bushmaster have been purchased: troop, command, mortar, assault pioneer, direct fire weapon, ambulance and air defence. A new general maintenance variant is being created by modifying the assault pioneer variant and an electronic warfare variant is also being developed.
https://www.army.gov.au/our-work/equipm ... bushmaster

AS EW
https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/land- ... ushmasters

NL EW
Royal Netherlands Army Receives First Bushmaster 4×4 Electronic Warfare Vehicle
https://militaryleak.com/2020/07/05/roy ... e-vehicle/
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Plus whatever configuration the various SF forces AS, UK, NZ and NL operate.
Image
https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/ind ... ters-pics/

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Mercator »

Also, pretty sure the factory location has been selected, if chosen, in Glasgow.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?i ... -06a.171.3

An old brochure showing some concept variants that were made but not introduced...
https://www.radschool.org.au/magazines/ ... ranger.pdf

Image
http://images.defence.gov.au/20080343

Apparently the Gun Limber variant was developed, at least in part, for an emerging UK requirement that went nowhere [as usual].
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/ ... rwheelsnet
https://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspo ... Bushmaster
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Image

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Lord Jim
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Lord Jim »

RunningStrong wrote:There's so much incorrect here...

Firstly, Bushmaster is a Thales product, nothing to do with BAE or RLS. Thales have previously operated facilities in Wales (Llanelli), doing Warthog fitments for British Army use. Most those employees later ended up on Foxhound and subsequently AJAX/Warrior.

They've already modified the base platform to meet the MRV-P requirements (adding front doors).

AFAIK, the only key variants are troop carrier, command and ambulance. All others are either stowage plan (mortar, air defence, forward observation) or concept (utility).
I stand corrected, but like the Boxer programme, there are important variants that are not at present part of the programme yet are essential if the units so equipped ate viable combat units, so the three variants listed are not the only "Key", variants just the ones the Army has as initial requirements. If the modifications to meet the MRV(P) phase 2 have already been made then all the better.

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Tempest414
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Tempest414 »

RunningStrong wrote:AFAIK, the only key variants are troop carrier, command and ambulance. All others are either stowage plan (mortar, air defence, forward observation) or concept (utility).
I would agree that the Mortar & air defence will need looking at but with the Thales Rapid Ranger system air defence and direct fires could be met and as said I am sure a fully fitted mortar could be sorted and Bushmaster has right now

troop carrier
Command
Ambulance
Maintenance
EW
EOD

and Utility is more than just concept as it driving around on the proving grounds carrying loads

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Ron5 »

God help the army that goes to war with only these vehicles. Trucks with a thin armor coating.

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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Lord Jim »

At least they have a thin armour coating, look at the US Army Infantry looking to use the Polaris and other very light vehicles to give them mobility but zero protection!

Adding an EW platform is also going to be vital. NATO has almost forgotten EW in favour of Cyber whilst Russia has retained a substantial capability and is constantly improving it as has been discovered in Ukraine, where they have been able to block communications and satellite connection removing GPS over substantial areas.

Ron5
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Re: Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

Post by Ron5 »

Lord Jim wrote:At least they have a thin armour coating, look at the US Army Infantry looking to use the Polaris and other very light vehicles to give them mobility but zero protection!
I said with ONLY these vehicles :D

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