Multi Role Vehicle – Protected - MRV(P)

[tomuk]

RBSL seem to be subcontracting out much of the Boxer manufacturing to WFEL and Pearson

That is a misunderstanding of the 'ownership' of Boxer. It is split between KMW - Krauss-Maffei Wegmann and Rheinmetall. Generally speaking KMW are responsible for the hull and Rheinmetall the payload modules\turret. Please note the exact relationship is blurred due to work share agreements etc on particular projects. In the UK KMW through their subsidiary company WFEL are building 'half' and Rheinmetall through their subsidiary RBSL are also building 'half'. There are of course further subcontractors involved building components like Pearson.

[SW1]

not specifically a vehicle we would be buying but could see the setup repeated

[SW1]

[jedibeeftrix]

"60 of the Future All-Terrain Vehicles (FATVs) from 2025 to replace its current fleet of Vikings and the older Bv 206"

All of them?
Does this mean 60x BvS10 (Mk3) replacing:
99 BvS-10 Mk2 and;
293 strong BV206 fleet
Is that it? In which case we're looking at a massive reduction!

For reference, in 2015 Defence News was reporting that the MoD had a requirement for 212 BvS206 replacement vehicles "for use in a supporting role to the Viking" (which itself was a fleet of 100 odd vehicles)!
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2015/0 ... r-marines/

[SW1]

"60 of the Future All-Terrain Vehicles (FATVs) from 2025 to replace its current fleet of Vikings and the older Bv 206"

All of them?
Does this mean 60x BvS10 (Mk3) replacing:
99 BvS-10 Mk2 and;
293 strong BV206 fleet
Is that it? In which case we're looking at a massive reduction!

For reference, in 2015 Defence News was reporting that the MoD had a requirement for 212 BvS206 replacement vehicles "for use in a supporting role to the Viking" (which itself was a fleet of 100 odd vehicles)!
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2015/0 ... r-marines/

Does seem a small number hopefully the initial batch. Wouldn’t mind seeing bvs10 adopted more widely across the light forces. Chinook liftable and used across complex terrain from the artic to the desert and everywhere in between

[bobp]

Another stealth cut if the figure is 60, probably one of the most useful go anywhere vehicles the UK forces owned.

[RunningStrong]

"60 of the Future All-Terrain Vehicles (FATVs) from 2025 to replace its current fleet of Vikings and the older Bv 206"

All of them?
Does this mean 60x BvS10 (Mk3) replacing:
99 BvS-10 Mk2 and;
293 strong BV206 fleet
Is that it? In which case we're looking at a massive reduction

Does UK still operate a BV206 fleet?

Whilst it could be a cut, it could also be a plan to operate a split fleet of vehicles. Viking didn't get heavy work once Warthog entered service (and retired).

[jedibeeftrix]

"60 of the Future All-Terrain Vehicles (FATVs) from 2025 to replace its current fleet of Vikings and the older Bv 206"

All of them?
Does this mean 60x BvS10 (Mk3) replacing:
99 BvS-10 Mk2 and;
293 strong BV206 fleet
Is that it? In which case we're looking at a massive reduction

Does UK still operate a BV206 fleet?

Whilst it could be a cut, it could also be a plan to operate a split fleet of vehicles. Viking didn't get heavy work once Warthog entered service (and retired).

it had a requirement for 212 replacements vehicles in 2015. in UK procurement terms that probably means their soldiering on manfully despite their venerable age.

[jonas]

This states quite clearly the the 60 ATV's for the UK, are for the use of the UK Commando Force in the littoral response group.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/brit ... -agreement

[Lord Jim]

Looking at post further up steam it seems the new BVS10 Vikings are replacing the aging BV206s. Such a programme has been on the cards for a while as the BS10 ias a larger and more capable platform. As there will be the latest variant of the BS10 using them in the Littoral Response Groups makes sense but I do not think any of the current BVs10 fleet will be retiring.

[RunningStrong]

I am sure but where do we stop. As it has been said what could be done with the money lets take the funding for the extra 500 Boxers lets say this equals 2.1 Billion should we be looking to buy 200 Boxers , 300 BVs-10's and 700 Bushmasters for the same money

I agree. We need to prioritise the replacement of FV432/CVR(T) and the most effective way of that is by progressing MRV-P part 2.

[Tempest414]

So just doing some simple sums from quick figures and based on the funding for 500 extra Boxers set at 2 billion

if we give Boxer a unit price in pounds of 4 million and BvS-10 a unit price of 1.5 million and then Bushmaster a unit price of 600,000 this could allow us to buy something like

200 Boxer = 800 million pounds ( total feet size 823 )
500 BvS-10 = 750 million pounds ( total fleet size 660)
800 Bushmaster = 480 million pounds ( total fleet size 800 )

Total cost 2.03 Billion

[RunningStrong]

So just doing some simple sums from quick figures and based on the funding for 500 extra Boxers set at 2 billion

if we give Boxer a unit price in pounds of 4 million and BvS-10 a unit price of 1.5 million and then Bushmaster a unit price of 600,000 this could allow us to buy something like

200 Boxer = 800 million pounds ( total feet size 823 )
500 BvS-10 = 750 million pounds ( total fleet size 660)
800 Bushmaster = 480 million pounds ( total fleet size 800 )

Total cost 2.03 Billion

To replace 880 Bulldog vehicles, 218 Husky, 99 Viking, Pinz (<100?).

[sol]

... Bushmaster a unit price of 600,000 ....

800 Bushmaster = 480 million pounds ( total fleet size 800 )

I am not sure how do you get these numbers but this is serious underestimation of the costs for Bushmasters. Wikipedia is using article published in sunrise from last year as a source for vehicle price, which is listed at AUD2.45 million per unit (£1.4 million). Two years ago, in 2020, New Zealand bought 43 Bushmasters for NZD102.9 million ($67 million). I am not sure what was rate than but today it would mean £54 million total or £1.25 million per unit. So £600,000 per vehicle looks unrealistic and price per unit would be almost double that amount.

[Tempest414]

... Bushmaster a unit price of 600,000 ....

800 Bushmaster = 480 million pounds ( total fleet size 800 )

I am not sure how do you get these numbers but this is serious underestimation of the costs for Bushmasters. Wikipedia is using article published in sunrise from last year as a source for vehicle price, which is listed at AUD2.45 million per unit (£1.4 million). Two years ago, in 2020, New Zealand bought 43 Bushmasters for NZD102.9 million ($67 million). I am not sure what was rate than but today it would mean £54 million total or £1.25 million per unit. So £600,000 per vehicle looks unrealistic and price per unit would be almost double that amount.

OK lets play with those figures and keeping the 4 million per Boxer 500 would = 2 billion pound so it could brake it down like so

150 Boxers @ 4 million each = 600 million
500 BvS-10 @ 1.5 million each = 750 million
500 Bushmaster @ 1.4 million each = 700 million

The other option could be a buy of

175 Boxer = 700 million
1200 Patria 6x6 = 1.3 billion

[SW1]

[Tempest414]

All very good but these vehicles are getting on for 20 years old now for me we need to move on Keep Jackal and Foxhound and replace Mastiff with 600 Prtria 6x6 at the same time start design of a UK replacement for Jackal & Foxhound with a 1200 vehicle order to start in 2030