Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

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Jensy
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

Sir Humphrey has given his two cents (tupence?) on the subject:

https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com ... s.html?m=1

Nothing groundbreaking but raises questions over whether the material state of many of the Type 23s are even up to a second life with an export customer.

From my perspective, if the Greeks want to buy three of the GP ships, with Artisan and Sea Ceptor and maybe some extra 2087 sonar, it's worth losing the numbers for a few years, especially as we seem to be flush with 'overseas' patrol ships for now.

If however this is a cunning plan to reduce type 31, or even worse Type 26 numbers, then we have a problem.

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Tempest414
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

Jensy wrote:If however this is a cunning plan to reduce type 31, or even worse Type 26 numbers, then we have a problem.
It wouldn't be type 31 they are ordered there are two questions how many do they wont and when do they wont them. if they wont 3 and they wont the first ship in 2023 no problem

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by dmereifield »

Tempest414 wrote:
Jensy wrote:If however this is a cunning plan to reduce type 31, or even worse Type 26 numbers, then we have a problem.
It wouldn't be type 31 they are ordered there are two questions how many do they wont and when do they wont them. if they wont 3 and they wont the first ship in 2023 no problem
I'm sureI read somewhereon twitter that it was 4 they're after, but might not be any hard evidence to corroborate that. Didn't see any info on the timeline

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Jensy
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

Tempest414 wrote:
Jensy wrote:If however this is a cunning plan to reduce type 31, or even worse Type 26 numbers, then we have a problem.
It wouldn't be type 31 they are ordered there are two questions how many do they wont and when do they wont them. if they wont 3 and they wont the first ship in 2023 no problem
Unless something terrible goes wrong the Type 31s will definitely be built, however I could see the government selling off a couple (and no suggestion of replacements) with the argument: "the shipbuilding strategy told us to do this".
dmereifield wrote: I'm sureI read somewhereon twitter that it was 4 they're after, but might not be any hard evidence to corroborate that. Didn't see any info on the timeline
Three Type 23s was just guesswork on my part. The Greeks have nine (ex-Dutch) Elli Class Frigates in service and have been looking to buy four Lockheed Martin MMSC (poshed up Littoral Combat Ships) and two FTI Frigates from France. I was just filling in the gap!

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

tomuk wrote:
Ron5 wrote:
The Armchair Soldier wrote:

Anyone heard anything about this?
Also mentioned in the Telegraph today. Apparently the Greeks want all their equipment too which throws a monkey wrench in the MoD plans to strip said equipment and reuse in the T31's & T26's.
Ron the T31s aren't getting any T23 equipment it is all new Thales Radar, sensors and CMS, BAE Bofors guns etc.

The T23s are still going through LIFEX and IPMU engine upgrades. Sutherland still hasn't got Sea Ceptor.
T31's are going to get a few hundred million of government supplied equipment that includes Sea Ceptor & communications. Most of that will be from decommed T23s.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

A small finding.

HMS Argyll, in many cases in its 6-month deployment to middle east, do not use "mush room cover" on its 32 CAMM. The flat top of the canister itself is directly seen in many cases. (all images from HMS Argyll Twitter)
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Lord Jim
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Lord Jim »

Would it be possible to place a single Phalanx on top of the hanger now the Sea Wolf directors have gone?

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

donald_of_tokyo wrote:A small finding.

HMS Argyll, in many cases in its 6-month deployment to middle east, do not use "mush room cover" on its 32 CAMM. The flat top of the canister itself is directly seen in many cases. (all images from HMS Argyll Twitter)
@Donald-san I have noticed this to on other Type 23's recently.

It make me wonder two things: if the tubes actually contained missiles, and secondly whether the flat tops are providing enough weather proofing to the point where the manually removable rubber mushrooms are not needed.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Lord Jim wrote:Would it be possible to place a single Phalanx on top of the hanger now the Sea Wolf directors have gone?
Probably but we've seen a selection of new domes being fitted there.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Ron5 wrote:
donald_of_tokyo wrote:A small finding.

HMS Argyll, in many cases in its 6-month deployment to middle east, do not use "mush room cover" on its 32 CAMM. The flat top of the canister itself is directly seen in many cases. (all images from HMS Argyll Twitter)
@Donald-san I have noticed this to on other Type 23's recently.

It make me wonder two things: if the tubes actually contained missiles, and secondly whether the flat tops are providing enough weather proofing to the point where the manually removable rubber mushrooms are not needed.
The mushroom cap is removed by crew when the ship moves to a higher alert state. This is similar to Seawolf where there was a metal plate over each tube which needed to be removed and stowed. I suppose it is like a gun tompion. Can CAMM be fired through the mushroom cap in an emergency?

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by 90inFIRST »

tomuk wrote:
Ron5 wrote:
donald_of_tokyo wrote:A small finding.

HMS Argyll, in many cases in its 6-month deployment to middle east, do not use "mush room cover" on its 32 CAMM. The flat top of the canister itself is directly seen in many cases. (all images from HMS Argyll Twitter)
@Donald-san I have noticed this to on other Type 23's recently.

It make me wonder two things: if the tubes actually contained missiles, and secondly whether the flat tops are providing enough weather proofing to the point where the manually removable rubber mushrooms are not needed.
The mushroom cap is removed by crew when the ship moves to a higher alert state. This is similar to Seawolf where there was a metal plate over each tube which needed to be removed and stowed. I suppose it is like a gun tompion. Can CAMM be fired through the mushroom cap in an emergency?
If there flat topped there empty if there mushroom they have a missile in, you could see that on seawolf as well different covers depending if there was something in there or not

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by bobp »

90inFIRST wrote:If there flat topped there empty if there mushroom they have a missile in, you could see that on seawolf as well different covers depending if there was something in there or not
So what you are saying in effect is our ships are unarmed on deployment?

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

90inFIRST wrote:If there flat topped there empty if there mushroom they have a missile in, you could see that on seawolf as well different covers depending if there was something in there or not
On video the CAMM missile breaks a flat top and not a mushroom so flat or mushroom there can still be a missile inside

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

bobp wrote:
90inFIRST wrote:If there flat topped there empty if there mushroom they have a missile in, you could see that on seawolf as well different covers depending if there was something in there or not
So what you are saying in effect is our ships are unarmed on deployment?
It's happened but usually on such deployments as West Indies.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

90inFIRST wrote: If there flat topped there empty if there mushroom they have a missile in, you could see that on seawolf as well different covers depending if there was something in there or not
That is completely wrong see the video

https://youtu.be/2txH6FjnzI0

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by 90inFIRST »

tomuk wrote:
90inFIRST wrote: If there flat topped there empty if there mushroom they have a missile in, you could see that on seawolf as well different covers depending if there was something in there or not
That is completely wrong see the video

https://youtu.be/2txH6FjnzI0

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You can see the difference between the loaded and unloaded nests

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by 90inFIRST »

Tempest414 wrote:
90inFIRST wrote:If there flat topped there empty if there mushroom they have a missile in, you could see that on seawolf as well different covers depending if there was something in there or not
On video the CAMM missile breaks a flat top and not a mushroom so flat or mushroom there can still be a missile inside

No it doesnt

https://www.forces.net/news/what-can-ro ... issiles-do

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

In both the image and the video in yourlink ( not in mine ) show the missile coming out of tubes with mushroom removed i.e flat tops

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Tempest414 wrote:In both the image and the video in yourlink ( not in mine ) show the missile coming out of tubes with mushroom removed i.e flat tops
Yes. It is very difficult to see, but if you successfully stop the first second of the video, you can see the launcher from which the CAMM is coming out has no mushroom cap. Very difficult to see, I agree, but it is flat.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by bobp »

Awesome pics from HMS Northumberland during exercise....


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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by bobp »

HMS Northumberland in Dundee for supplies


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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

bobp wrote:HMS Northumberland in Dundee for supplies
Same way that Nelson used.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by shark bait »

Has the Navy never heard of a telehandler?
@LandSharkUK

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

shark bait wrote:telehandler
A knowledgeable poster on another board related how they designed in detail a RORO system for dockside replenishing the QE's at a great saving in time & manpower.Basically the supply trucks would drive onboard and the goods forklifted to an automated handling system. Not that expensive.

Can you guess what happened?

Wanna bet we'll see the chains of people hand carrying stuff aboard?

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by shark bait »

I believe they were doing it on the BBC documentary, and were all very proud of their shit method.

At least our Kiwi friends aren't so dumb.

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