Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
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xav
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by xav »

First S2150 Sonar Fitted Aboard Royal Navy Type 23 Frigate HMS Portland
Image
HMS Portland becomes the first ship to be fitted with Ultra’s next generation Hull Mounted Sonar Type 2150 as part of a wider refit to the Royal Navy’s frigates.

The sonar has been designed by Ultra Electronics Command & Sonar Systems and will replace the legacy Sonar Type 2050, which has been in Royal Navy service since the 1990s. The new sonar incorporates a state of the art User Interface to improve operator effectiveness and usability. The digital control of the outboard array minimises interference, reduces ships cabling, maximises reliability and extends array maintenance intervals to at least 5 years. The sonar will be fitted to eight of the Royal Navy Type 23 frigates. Ultra has also been awarded the contract to supply this sonar to the first three Royal Navy Type 26 frigates currently under construction.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -portland/

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RichardIC
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

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Ron5
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

I vote for binning the requirement and spending the money on more F-35B.

Caribbean
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

Ron5 wrote:I vote for binning the requirement and spending the money on more F-35B.
I suspect that firing F35's at our opponents might work out a tad expensive. Spectacular, though ;)
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by seaspear »

H.M.S Kent has been deployed to the Barents sea with the US. navy in a freedom of sea navigation excercise ,Russia was given prior knowledge of this to prevent misunderstanding ,Im not sure of the last occassion a R.N ship entered these waters certainly they were more welcome during the second world war delivering supplies to Russia
https://defpost.com/royal-navy-frigate- ... rents-sea/

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

seaspear wrote:Im not sure of the last occassion a R.N ship entered these waters certainly they were more welcome during the second world war delivering supplies to Russia
Few remember a Brit battleship under Russian flag: "in Sept 1943 the Russians right away laid claim to 1/3 of the Italian navy as reparations for the destruction created by Italian ships in the Black Sea. However the Allies had limited option with no motivation to make this agreement, they sacrificed by relocating several of their own vessels on loan, until such moment as the captured Italian ships could be apportioned.

As elements of this settlement the British made available the aged battleship Royal Sovereign" which became Arkhangelsk
... sorry about thread drift; there doesn't seem to be another one where this would slot in
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Aethulwulf
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Aethulwulf »

Only one T23 is still fitted with SeaWolf, HMS Sutherland.

The RN has announced the HMS Sutherland has undertaken her last round of firings with SeaWolf and there are no further firings planned before it is taken out of service later this year.

Clive F
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Clive F »

Is there a second hand marrket for sea wolf missiles?

If not why not use them up as practice?

Scimitar54
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Scimitar54 »

Because it is theoretically possible that they JUST MIGHT be required for use by RFA Fort Victoria? :mrgreen:

NickC
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

Calc the average days at sea per year (as did yesterday for T45) for the fleet of the thirteen T23s., based on 2015 to 2018 figures (Kevan Jones did not ask for 2019 data, think maybe asked in previous queation?), by coincidence the answer was the same as for the T45, 81 days at sea per year per ship.

Presumably reflecting the state of these old ships and lack of funding for maintenance and crews, though with Richmond the first to complete full mid-life upgrade Dec 2019 the figures might improve

FRIGATE 2015 2016 2017 2018
ARGYLL 25 0 111 141
IRON DUKE 85 132 94 0
KENT 124 67 0 57
LANCASTER 157 0 0 0
MONMOUTH 68 113 209 131
MONTROSE 0 0 41 145
NORTHUMBERLAND 48 0 0 117
PORTLAND 107 176 41 0
RICHMOND 180 73 51 0
SOMERSET 131 113 95 60
ST ALBANS 122 136 138 120
SUTHERLAND 127 127 103 166
WESTMINSTER 0 0 126 152

Parliamentary answer 2nd June to question from Kevan Jones Labour, North Durham (via uk defence journal)

From <https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?i ... #g49605.q0>

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Tempest414
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

The simple fact is the type 23's have needed replacing and are now being given some last legs and type 45 has needed a power upgrade both of which the HMG has seen as not worth the time and money until now

both classes have suffered form Osborne and Hamond's lack of vision or care

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Tempest414 wrote:both classes have suffered form Osborne and Hamond's lack of vision or care
That is true.

But is it also true that there were admiral(s) that thought the money sunk into carriers would make it 'automatic' that funding for
A. their weapon system (ie. JSF; of course the "J" they thought was just a brand, to sell the product; let me see now: the carriers were to cost 2-3 bn, but they cost twice that. The price was not doubled, 6+6 by adding the weapon system into costings, not to make them just LPHs, but indeed was more than that: 6+9 (and counting),
AND
B. escorts
would follow.

Not so. Has been painful to watch the story. Even for someone like me approving of the direction to which the balance has been tilted from a v unbalanced navy, when the project/ doctrine (CEPP, replacing strike that was coming out too expensive... as there would have been no 'other surface navy' left) was started

So: keeping the T23s afloat (read comments to the Parliament from late 90's about how much buoyancy reserve they had left for upgrades) and holding back on the monies needed to make the AAW fully/ reliably operational... until the assets they were needed for, to protect, came on-line
- and trying to fit a few new escorts into the budget, before the whale called "dreadnought... not Moby Dick" comes and eats all the money up
- if anyone thinks that I just woke up from a bad dream; tell me when the 8th T26 will be operational
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

NickC
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

@ArmChairCivy

A clear and concise explanation of recent RN history and why it has ended up in such as sad place today. Thx.

Scimitar54
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Scimitar54 »

More telling would be; “When will the first 3 UK T26 be FULLY Operational”? :mrgreen:

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by bobp »

ArmChairCivvy wrote: if anyone thinks that I just woke up from a bad dream; tell me when the 8th T26 will be operational
Suspect I wont be around to find that one out.

serge750
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by serge750 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Tempest414 wrote:both classes have suffered form Osborne and Hamond's lack of vision or care
That is true.

But is it also true that there were admiral(s) that thought the money sunk into carriers would make it 'automatic' that funding for
A. their weapon system (ie. JSF; of course the "J" they thought was just a brand, to sell the product; let me see now: the carriers were to cost 2-3 bn, but they cost twice that. The price was not doubled, 6+6 by adding the weapon system into costings, not to make them just LPHs, but indeed was more than that: 6+9 (and counting),
AND
B. escorts
would follow.

Not so. Has been painful to watch the story. Even for someone like me approving of the direction to which the balance has been tilted from a v unbalanced navy, when the project/ doctrine (CEPP, replacing strike that was coming out too expensive... as there would have been no 'other surface navy' left) was started

So: keeping the T23s afloat (read comments to the Parliament from late 90's about how much buoyancy reserve they had left for upgrades) and holding back on the monies needed to make the AAW fully/ reliably operational... until the assets they were needed for, to protect, came on-line
- and trying to fit a few new escorts into the budget, before the whale called "dreadnought... not Moby Dick" comes and eats all the money up
- if anyone thinks that I just woke up from a bad dream; tell me when the 8th T26 will be operational
Excellent way of explaining it, Such a difficult decision, the right one I think after reading your post - unless the MOD got more dosh :lol: if we didn't get the carriers we probably still have the same number of destroyers + frigates but only American carriers to protect ! especially after the 2010 cuts, would of still messed up the budget, probably no T31 though :D

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

RN PR on Lancaster "gearing up for her first operational duties in nearly five years following a period of extended readiness and two-year refit in Devonport.

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... ons-trials

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

HMS Kent stolen from WarshipPorn ..

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Some interesting new domes on display on HMS Richmond ..

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

The Armchair Soldier wrote:

Anyone heard anything about this?
Also mentioned in the Telegraph today. Apparently the Greeks want all their equipment too which throws a monkey wrench in the MoD plans to strip said equipment and reuse in the T31's & T26's.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Ron5 wrote:
The Armchair Soldier wrote:

Anyone heard anything about this?
Also mentioned in the Telegraph today. Apparently the Greeks want all their equipment too which throws a monkey wrench in the MoD plans to strip said equipment and reuse in the T31's & T26's.
Ron the T31s aren't getting any T23 equipment it is all new Thales Radar, sensors and CMS, BAE Bofors guns etc.

The T23s are still going through LIFEX and IPMU engine upgrades. Sutherland still hasn't got Sea Ceptor.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by serge750 »

Soon there will be more T23 not in RN service than in RN ? :lol: bit like the T26 :D any guesses on how many may get sold ? maybe 2 ?

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

We’ve had a T23 and T45 tied up without crew, with PoW and the B1 Rivers I cant see the numbers coming free soon. Also, when would crews need to be available for HMS Glasgow and the first T31?

So dropping 2-3 GP T23s earlier is probably manageable.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

serge750
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by serge750 »

Yes I agree, ( was only taking the mick on my above comment ) if they are not being used, then why not, a token gesture to the bean counters, hopefully not the ones that have been just upgraded though !!!

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