Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

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jonas
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Re: Type 23 Frigates (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by jonas »

Gabriele wrote:
Tony Williams wrote:
sea_eagle wrote:Of course no reason not to think that the CAMM numbers could be increased over time by quad packing some of the silos.
I assumed that quad-packing was only an option for the Sylver and larger silos. Is there any evidence that CAMM could be quad-packed in Sea Wolf silos?
The silo will be changed quite dramatically, if the MBDA information is anything to go by. Half of the current silo will be closed over and used to host electronics and support equipment (four launch management systems), with the missile cells (12) all on one side. Each of the 12 cells can hold 4 CAMM canisters, for a total of 48, the same missile load expected for the Type 26. Technically, 44 CAMM fit where some 16 Sea Wolf used to fit.
Note that the "cells" in this case, due to CAMM being cold launched, are literally just holes with a protective lid. The missiles are contained and launched from their sealed canister, which is the same for the Navy and Army variant.
The Sea Wolf circular tubes will be removed.

MBDA video. Type 23 installation from around 1:30
I am rather confused by the above. We have been told in regards to sea ceptor how easy it will be to fit dut to it being cold launched. How it can be used on small vessels as basically a bolt on system, and on any others with comparitive ease.
Now we are told that half of the T23 silo's will be shut off to house electronics and support equipment for it, and we end up with approximately the same number of missiles.
So it doesn't appear to me from what you say, that it will be as straightforward to fit as an add on to other platforms as we have been lead to believe. Or am I reading this all wrong.

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Re: Type 23 Frigates (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by Gabriele »

jonas wrote:
I am rather confused by the above. We have been told in regards to sea ceptor how easy it will be to fit dut to it being cold launched. How it can be used on small vessels as basically a bolt on system, and on any others with comparitive ease.
Now we are told that half of the T23 silo's will be shut off to house electronics and support equipment for it, and we end up with approximately the same number of missiles.
So it doesn't appear to me from what you say, that it will be as straightforward to fit as an add on to other platforms as we have been lead to believe. Or am I reading this all wrong.

It is always a high performance missile system. It was always going to have a back-end and "simple" is always relative.
I'm not sure what exactly is that they are fitting into the half of the silo that gets closed up. One graphic i saw says "launch management system, x4". They are probably putting it there because the less stuff they have to move inside the ship, the less complex the job is. I'm guessing that 12 is kind of a magic number for CAMM. It is the number of missiles on the land launcher, and the Type 26's cells are arranged quite clearly in four groups of 12. I have to assume every group of 12 missiles gets its own launch management system. This seems to be a relatively tiny box, visible in some photos of the truck launcher for the land variant, near the mast-mounted data-link antenna.
If it is, the Type 23 is unlikely to need half the silo. If the truck launcher is anything to go by, much less space would suffice. They might be using it deliberately. The assumption seems to be that 48 missiles is really a good number, and that the Type 23 fit, while installed in a different way, will be a future Type 26 fit, complete of all pieces. Same number of missiles, and of back end elements.

As for the number of missiles, it is still a move up from 32 to 48, using less space and weight. Not bad, actually.
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Re: Type 23 Frigates (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by Tony Williams »

Gabriele wrote: The silo will be changed quite dramatically, if the MBDA information is anything to go by. Half of the current silo will be closed over and used to host electronics and support equipment (four launch management systems), with the missile cells (12) all on one side. Each of the 12 cells can hold 4 CAMM canisters, for a total of 48, the same missile load expected for the Type 26. Technically, 48 CAMM fit where just some 16 Sea Wolf used to fit, more or less.
Thanks for the info.

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Re: Type 23 Frigates (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by jonas »

Gabriele wrote:
jonas wrote:
I am rather confused by the above. We have been told in regards to sea ceptor how easy it will be to fit dut to it being cold launched. How it can be used on small vessels as basically a bolt on system, and on any others with comparitive ease.
Now we are told that half of the T23 silo's will be shut off to house electronics and support equipment for it, and we end up with approximately the same number of missiles.
So it doesn't appear to me from what you say, that it will be as straightforward to fit as an add on to other platforms as we have been lead to believe. Or am I reading this all wrong.

It is always a high performance missile system. It was always going to have a back-end and "simple" is always relative.
I'm not sure what exactly is that they are fitting into the half of the silo that gets closed up. One graphic i saw says "launch management system, x4". They are probably putting it there because the less stuff they have to move inside the ship, the less complex the job is. I'm guessing that 12 is kind of a magic number for CAMM. It is the number of missiles on the land launcher, and the Type 26's cells are arranged quite clearly in four groups of 12. I have to assume every group of 12 missiles gets its own launch management system. This seems to be a relatively tiny box, visible in some photos of the truck launcher for the land variant, near the mast-mounted data-link antenna.
If it is, the Type 23 is unlikely to need half the silo. If the truck launcher is anything to go by, much less space would suffice. They might be using it deliberately. The assumption seems to be that 48 missiles is really a good number, and that the Type 23 fit, while installed in a different way, will be a future Type 26 fit, complete of all pieces. Same number of missiles, and of back end elements.

As for the number of missiles, it is still a move up from 32 to 48, using less space and weight. Not bad, actually.
Gabriele
Once again thanks for the clarification.

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Re: Type 23 Frigates (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by ggw22 »

Gabriele wrote:
jonas wrote:
I am rather confused by the above. We have been told in regards to sea ceptor how easy it will be to fit dut to it being cold launched. How it can be used on small vessels as basically a bolt on system, and on any others with comparitive ease.
Now we are told that half of the T23 silo's will be shut off to house electronics and support equipment for it, and we end up with approximately the same number of missiles.
So it doesn't appear to me from what you say, that it will be as straightforward to fit as an add on to other platforms as we have been lead to believe. Or am I reading this all wrong.

It is always a high performance missile system. It was always going to have a back-end and "simple" is always relative.
I'm not sure what exactly is that they are fitting into the half of the silo that gets closed up. One graphic i saw says "launch management system, x4". They are probably putting it there because the less stuff they have to move inside the ship, the less complex the job is. I'm guessing that 12 is kind of a magic number for CAMM. It is the number of missiles on the land launcher, and the Type 26's cells are arranged quite clearly in four groups of 12. I have to assume every group of 12 missiles gets its own launch management system. This seems to be a relatively tiny box, visible in some photos of the truck launcher for the land variant, near the mast-mounted data-link antenna.
If it is, the Type 23 is unlikely to need half the silo. If the truck launcher is anything to go by, much less space would suffice. They might be using it deliberately. The assumption seems to be that 48 missiles is really a good number, and that the Type 23 fit, while installed in a different way, will be a future Type 26 fit, complete of all pieces. Same number of missiles, and of back end elements.

As for the number of missiles, it is still a move up from 32 to 48, using less space and weight. Not bad, actually.
Another good reason for using the silo space for electronics is that it removes these large, weighty items lower into the ship which helps provide more room for other items in the congested superstructure. Also helps with wild heat management. Realistically there is little else that could go into the silo spaces.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by SKB »

A Royal Navy sailor who served about T23 frigate HMS Richmond, has been found dead during a visit by his warship to the Seychelles.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... elles.html

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by sea_eagle »

I believe the T23 upgrade plans have been carefully thought out to minimise costs and keep the 2 shipyards busy.
For the Seawolf B2 upgrade only 11 ships will be fitted. The remaining 2, Monmouth & Iron Duke, will be the first to be fitted with CAMM in 2016.

For the CAMM upgrade the Artisan 997 radar will be fitted first. Only 11 of the 13 ships will receive CAMM. The remaining 2 ships, Argyll & Lancaster, will keep the Seawolf B2 upgrade and be the first ships replaced by the T26.

The schedule for CAMM fit is:
2016 Iron Duke & Monmouth
2017 Montrose & Westminster
2018 Richmond & Northumberland
2019 Somerset & Sutherland
2020 Kent & Portland
2021 St. Albans

As I understand it all of the General Purpose (GP) ships will be retired first followed by the ASW ships.
2024 Argyll & Lancaster (Seawolf B2) retired and replaced by first T26
2025 Iron Duke
2026 Monmouth
2027 Montrose

This makes sense to me, keep the tried & test ASW T23 in service while the first T26 are commissioned. Then when the ASW version of the T26 are built all the new systems in the T26 (engines etc) will be proven and the ASW kit (proven) will be migrated from the T23 to the new ships. Minimises risks all the way.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

HMS Monmouth Sails Again
The Royal Navy frigate HMS Monmouth has sailed for the first time, on Friday the 12th June, after an 18-month refit in Plymouth having been upgraded with the latest cutting edge technology.

The ship, known as the ‘Black Duke’ after James Scott, the Duke of Monmouth, sailed from HM Naval Base, Devonport, for sea trials in order to demonstrate Her status as a world leader in Her field.

[...]

The focus will now move to testing Her engines, as well as trialling the latest updates to her weapons and computer systems; including the new Type 997 medium range radar, 4.5 inch gun and Seawolf missile system.
Read More: http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-la ... outh-sails

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by sea_eagle »

Good to see another T23 completing the refit with upgraded main gun, new Artisan radar, upgraded Sea Wolf, previously fitted automated DS30M and benefiting from the new slippery silicone paint and transom flap. The RN site is a bit vague about Sea Wolf as I thought it would not receive the B2 upgrade as HMS Monmouth is scheduled to be the first to receive CAMM next year.

Not bad considering these ships had an expected service life of 18 years, she is now 22 years in service and expected to continue until 2026 and the ripe old age of 33. We really have stretched and delayed the replacement of the T23 to the max. Can't see the T23 with an 85% availablility when they are all over 30 years old.

From the MOD site any one clarify what this means?
HMS Monmouth entered refit at the beginning of 2014 and has seen a significant amount of structural work to her superstructure, which has included approximately 17 tonnes of new steel covering an area of 220 square metres and over 1.1km.
Shame that CEC was postponed, hopefully will be included on the T26.
Would be useful to see the ACSG DS30M enhanced with the 7 round LMM launcher...

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by Pymes75 »

sea_eagle wrote: For the CAMM upgrade the Artisan 997 radar will be fitted first. Only 11 of the 13 ships will receive CAMM. The remaining 2 ships, Argyll & Lancaster, will keep the Seawolf B2 upgrade and be the first ships replaced by the T26.

The schedule for CAMM fit is:
2016 Iron Duke & Monmouth
2017 Montrose & Westminster
2018 Richmond & Northumberland
2019 Somerset & Sutherland
2020 Kent & Portland
2021 St. Albans

As I understand it all of the General Purpose (GP) ships will be retired first followed by the ASW ships.
2024 Argyll & Lancaster (Seawolf B2) retired and replaced by first T26
2025 Iron Duke
2026 Monmouth
2027 Montrose
Thanks for the information, sea_eagle! If it's okay with you that information will make it's way to the notes section of my Type 23 page....

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by ggw22 »

sea_eagle wrote:
From the MOD site any one clarify what this means?
HMS Monmouth entered refit at the beginning of 2014 and has seen a significant amount of structural work to her superstructure, which has included approximately 17 tonnes of new steel covering an area of 220 square metres and over 1.1km.
Shame that CEC was postponed, hopefully will be included on the T26.
Would be useful to see the ACSG DS30M enhanced with the 7 round LMM launcher...
Let me say - there is a very good team of people working for the MoD COM (Class Output Management) team who are tasked to ensure the 23s are effective to EoL...!

That statement is referring to the huge amount of structural work that has been (and will continue) to be tackled during these refits. Lots of the old steel is cut out and new inserts put in. For Monmouth, 220sq m worth...!

EDIT: This news article popped up at a great time... http://www.adsadvance.co.uk/hms-argyll- ... nsion.html

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by Gabriele »

Does anybody know if HMS Argyll was ever fitted with the PRISM and other Merlin Flight modifications...? Over time, all other Type 23s have received them, but last i knew, Argyll was, for some reason, left out. Indeed, i don't remember ever seeing / hearing of Merlin ops on Argyll.
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by ggw22 »

Gabriele wrote:Does anybody know if HMS Argyll was ever fitted with the PRISM and other Merlin Flight modifications...? Over time, all other Type 23s have received them, but last i knew, Argyll was, for some reason, left out. Indeed, i don't remember ever seeing / hearing of Merlin ops on Argyll.
Not sure if an answer to that would be prudent as it would reveal exact A&A history.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

ggw22 wrote:Let me say - there is a very good team of people working for the MoD COM (Class Output Management) team who are tasked to ensure the 23s are effective to EoL...!

That statement is referring to the huge amount of structural work that has been (and will continue) to be tackled during these refits. Lots of the old steel is cut out and new inserts put in. For Monmouth, 220sq m worth...!

EDIT: This news article popped up at a great time... http://www.adsadvance.co.uk/hms-argyll- ... nsion.html
From the outside they appear to be doing a great job, the T23's have been well looked after and continue to be. I have no doubt the class will remain effective, despite their massive life extension because they have been well invested in.
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by GibMariner »

Royal Navy technology ensures illegal drug seizure
Nearly a tonne of heroin has been seized in a series of busts in the Indian Ocean – made possible by the use of the Royal Navy’s cutting edge technology.

Six boats carrying narcotics were boarded off the east coast of Africa and their cargoes seized by an international task force which included British frigate HMS Richmond.

The warship used her state-of-the-art unmanned aircraft – called ScanEagle – to fly undetected above the smugglers, monitor activity and pass back information to commanders.

The Portsmouth-based warship and her counterparts in Combined Task Force 150, the international force committed to carrying out counter-terrorism and drug-smuggling patrols, then pounced as the vessels headed for Tanzania.

Based on UK current wholesale value of heroin, the haul has a potential price tag of £26.5m, but once cut several times it would be nearer £98m as an estimated street value.
More here: http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-la ... ug-seizure

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

HMS Argyll Upkeep Marks Start of Type 23 Life Extension

Image
Babcock has begun a docking period on Type 23 frigate HMS Argyll at Devonport Royal Dockyard, marking the official start of the Type 23 life extension programme.

HMS Argyll will be the first to undergo the Life Extension (LIFEX) Upkeep for Type 23 frigates – an extensive programme of capability update and upgrade developed and co-ordinated through the Surface Ship Support Alliance (the MoD, Babcock and BAE Systems). Led by Babcock, the LIFEX programme brings together major changes to equipment and systems, encompassing the Capability Sustainment Programme (CSP) and the opportunity to address equipment obsolescence, as well as extending the life of the hull and superstructure to operate well beyond its original design life. The programme will help to de-risk the future transition into service of the Type 26 Global Combat Ship.

Among the major upgrades and updates under the CSP, HMS Argyll will be the first of class to receive the Future Local Area Air Defence System (FLAADS), or Sea Ceptor, replacing Sea Wolf as the primary weapon system. In a further first, Argyll will see a significant change to the chilled water system with the introduction of a ring main.
Read More: http://www.adsadvance.co.uk/hms-argyll- ... nsion.html

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by arfah »

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by GibMariner »

HMS Northumberland stars in Waterloo commemorations
Royal Navy warship HMS Northumberland is set to play a lead role in events marking the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Waterloo this weekend.

The Plymouth Type 23 frigate sails from Ostend in Belgium to Kent as part of a re-enactment called The New Waterloo Dispatch.

The event recreates the historic journey of the dispatch - carrying news of the British and Allied Forces victory over Napoleon - between Waterloo and London.

HMS Northumberland will carry the document between Ostend and Broadstairs, arriving off Viking Bay on Saturday (June 20).
More here: http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-la ... emorations

It's a shame Iron Duke is still busy with BALTOPS, would have been more fitting :lol:

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

arfah wrote:Do you think the Chileans be tempted to have the same or similar life extension for their T23's?
Chile has been mentioned in the SeaCeptor context....
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Chile has been mentioned in the SeaCeptor context....
Yes seaceptor has good potential, its even got export before its launched which is an achievement
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by Halidon »

The Armchair Soldier wrote:HMS Argyll Upkeep Marks Start of Type 23 Life Extension

Image
Still handsome ships, the 23s, even with a big plastic igloo sitting on the bow.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by marktigger »

I see they were firing harpoon recently

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

Warship Practices 'Soft Kills' off UK Coast
A Royal Navy warship has tested its ‘soft kill’ systems in a rare series of firings off the South coast.

Designed to seduce, distract or confuse an incoming missile, the Sea Gnat and DLF were both used in the practice session – and it was the first time for many of the sailors on board.

Petty Officer (Electronic Warfare) Alan Hunt said: “Having worked with these rounds for 18 years and only trained with drill rounds, and only got as far as loading live decoys, it’s very impressive and reassuring to actually use all the different decoy systems on board HMS Iron Duke. Hopefully this will become a far more regular serial in the future.”
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN)

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Contracts give Royal Navy Frigates a Power Boost
The MOD has awarded contracts worth £80 million to upgrade the backbone of the Royal Navy surface flotilla, the Type 23 Frigates.

A £68M contract, with Rolls-Royce subsidiary MTU, which includes a training and transitional support package, will see each ship supplied with four new diesel generators and associated upgraded power distribution. A second contract, worth £12 million, with Hitzinger UK, will provide voltage converters to deliver greater power to the frigates.

[...]

The new generator equipment, being manufactured in Germany and Austria, will be installed at Her Majesty’s Naval Base, Devonport, during planned upkeep periods. The contract is set to be completed in 2024.
Read More: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cont ... ower-boost

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