Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Repulse wrote: 06 Nov 2022, 08:12
donald_of_tokyo wrote: 06 Nov 2022, 02:48 As the crew of Montrose will fill the T23 coming back fromLIFEX, your argument also states number of active escorts will not decrease. As such I think RN priority is more on man power, especially the retention rate.

Buying ammo comes the next.

T32 discussion must be terminated, I think. Priority is far far below.
Whilst I agree that manpower and stockpiles need to be a focus, it cannot be at the expense of brining on the T32.

Why? Because it is designed to play a needed and unique role in MCM and amphibious operations, plus could alleviate manpower issues with a lower crew requirement. If you want to focus funds and manpower kill the “make up numbers” T31, but not the T32.
If HMG/MoD/RN want or need more escorts then HMG will have to fund the crews to operate them.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that another 5 Frigates are going to be commissioned without identifying beforehand what the crews are coming from.
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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Repulse wrote: 06 Nov 2022, 08:12...
Whilst I agree that manpower and stockpiles need to be a focus, it cannot be at the expense of brining on the T32.

Why? Because it is designed to play a needed and unique role in MCM and amphibious operations, plus could alleviate manpower issues with a lower crew requirement. If you want to focus funds and manpower kill the “make up numbers” T31, but not the T32.
Not convinced. If it is MCM and amphibious operations, PSV-like cheap ship with low crew can do it, escorted by T31. There is not much need to make it an escort.

Up-arming T31 to "NATO light frigate level" is easy. Say, as much as Nansen-class and PPA-class. Or, as much as Halifax-class, and Dutch M-class (in Dutch, Belgium and Portogal navies) in the past, or European Patrol Corvette in future.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Poiuytrewq wrote: 06 Nov 2022, 09:55If HMG/MoD/RN want or need more escorts then HMG will have to fund the crews to operate them.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that another 5 Frigates are going to be commissioned without identifying beforehand what the crews are coming from.
Then, why not do it from now? How about much higher salary for higher retention rate? Of course, it costs a lot and money must be found. If there is no such money for a moment, there is of course zero money for T32. This is what I am saying.

By replacing T23s, the frigate fleet made of T31 and T26 will have a very high availability rate, thanks to its "newness". This will eat-out whole crew available now. Very good, because RN will have more escorts available than now. But, there will be not redundant crew there. If there be some more man-power, some of T31 and T26 can be double-crewed, as now done with KIPION T23s, to further increase the availability.

Not sure from where need for "more T32" can come...

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Moved across

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

HMS Montrose, intensive 4 years of operation KIPION.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by wargame_insomniac »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 15 Nov 2022, 15:42 HMS Montrose, intensive 4 years of operation KIPION.

From some of the comments in both T26 and T31 threads, it would seem that the considerd opinion is that the RN does not need General Purpose Frigayes in this new era of peer or near-peer level conflict. Apparently the RN no longer needs to assist our allies in patrolling the major Global shipping lanes (upon which the UK depends for both imports & exports), and take part in anti-piracy and drug smuggling interdiction.....

Montrose has been run hard and contributed much in tjose 4 years, with record catches of drug smuggling hauls. I have expressed before that in my opinion it is a shame that RN crew retention / recruitment is so poor that we need Montrose's crew to cover the latest T23 coming out of LIFEX (Iron Duke?), as I beleive it would have been great if we could have used Montrose, even just in UK waters.

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 15 Nov 2022, 21:51 RN crew retention / recruitment is so poor
Ya think that might have something to do with running on ships way past their sell by date?

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Re: Type 23 Frigate (Duke Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Ron5 wrote: 17 Nov 2022, 14:06
wargame_insomniac wrote: 15 Nov 2022, 21:51 RN crew retention / recruitment is so poor
Ya think that might have something to do with running on ships way past their sell by date?
Not really the conditions on board current ships isn't terrible by any means. I think a more important factor is the long and unpredictable deployments due to the lack of ships. The long deployments like Montrose with a regular rotated crew are an antidote to that.
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