Islamic Republic of Iran

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
serge750
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by serge750 »

Aslong as the ship has crew or owned in the uk then I say yes escort the ship(s) if there is no multi country led coalition, if there is going to be a for example a European led action then escort all ships from all country's involved imo,

As the usa are saying more nations in NATO should stump up money for defence if they benefit from the protection,

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

Lord Jim wrote:The question was asked as to whether it was justifies taking naval action over a UK flagged tanker. Well reading the letter section in a national news paper it was stated that the revenue generated to the UK Treasury from a UK flagged vessels that was not actually owned by a UK company nor crewed by UK personnel, was around £1200 in total. Is it worth going to extreme lengths to protect such vessels who have only paid such an amount, with all the implications it would bring? Should we only provide protection for UK owned vessels in future?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STUFT
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

Lord Jim
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Lord Jim »

??????????

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

Lord Jim wrote:??????????
Correct me if I'm wrong, but legally only UK flagged vessels can be taken from the trade in case of some emergency like Falklands 2.0 ( or something similar ). So, if the RN don't protect UK flagged vessels, shipowners will put them under some other flag, like Panama, Liberia or Malta. And then the UK has smaller number of ships available for STUFT. And that's a bad thing for the UK, at least in my humble opinion.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

Lord Jim
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Lord Jim »

I understand that but here we are talking about Tankers, no Ro-Ros and such like. So to be safe shall we say any vessels owned, crewed or an the register of vessels earmarked for STUFT

topman
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by topman »

abc123 wrote:
Lord Jim wrote:??????????
Correct me if I'm wrong, but legally only UK flagged vessels can be taken from the trade in case of some emergency like Falklands 2.0 ( or something similar ). So, if the RN don't protect UK flagged vessels, shipowners will put them under some other flag, like Panama, Liberia or Malta. And then the UK has smaller number of ships available for STUFT. And that's a bad thing for the UK, at least in my humble opinion.
How often do we need such ships, once in a blue moon. And companies don't use British flag for protection but for financial and trading reasons.

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

topman wrote:
abc123 wrote:
Lord Jim wrote:??????????
Correct me if I'm wrong, but legally only UK flagged vessels can be taken from the trade in case of some emergency like Falklands 2.0 ( or something similar ). So, if the RN don't protect UK flagged vessels, shipowners will put them under some other flag, like Panama, Liberia or Malta. And then the UK has smaller number of ships available for STUFT. And that's a bad thing for the UK, at least in my humble opinion.
How often do we need such ships, once in a blue moon. And companies don't use British flag for protection but for financial and trading reasons.
How often we use torpedos for SSNs? Once in a 40 years? Shall we start make them without torpedos? Same thing for Trident etc.
Never mind why they use the Red Ensign, you can be pretty certain that after these events the numbers will go down.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

topman
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by topman »

Of course it matters why they choose to be registered in the UK. That's the whole point!

Are we likely to call up a load of oil tankers any time soon?

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

topman wrote: Are we likely to call up a load of oil tankers any time soon?
I don't know. Do you know that?
It might be tomorrow or in 20 years.
But I would rather have them than not.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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clivestonehouse1
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by clivestonehouse1 »

topman wrote:Of course it matters why they choose to be registered in the UK. That's the whole point!

Are we likely to call up a load of oil tankers any time soon?
The Clyde Fisher is being used as a floating fuel depot right now.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Lord Jim
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Lord Jim »

The issue is we do not have the assets to provide blanket cover for any and all vessels operating under the Red Ensign in the Gulf let alone any other hot spots that arise. We need to conduct a sort of triage to decide which vessels get escorts and to do that we need to take some hard decisions priorities British owned and/or crew vessels and so on. It is probably the former that are on they STUFT register in all likely hood anyway.

topman
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by topman »

abc123 wrote:
topman wrote: Are we likely to call up a load of oil tankers any time soon?
I don't know. Do you know that?
It might be tomorrow or in 20 years.
But I would rather have them than not.
I can make a judgement about realistic scenarios, having to 'call up' dozens of oil tankers can only be British registered and not available from any other non british ship. I'd say that is extremely remote at best.

topman
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by topman »

clivestonehouse1 wrote:
topman wrote:Of course it matters why they choose to be registered in the UK. That's the whole point!

Are we likely to call up a load of oil tankers any time soon?
The Clyde Fisher is being used as a floating fuel depot right now.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Having had to google that, it's registered in the Bahamas.

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

topman wrote:
clivestonehouse1 wrote:
topman wrote:Of course it matters why they choose to be registered in the UK. That's the whole point!

Are we likely to call up a load of oil tankers any time soon?
The Clyde Fisher is being used as a floating fuel depot right now.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Having had to google that, it's registered in the Bahamas.

That's a commercial contract. When the shooting starts, there's no merchant shipowner that will accept any commercial contract anywhere near the warzone, except in case of STUFT, where they are forced to do so.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

topman wrote:
abc123 wrote:
topman wrote: Are we likely to call up a load of oil tankers any time soon?
I don't know. Do you know that?
It might be tomorrow or in 20 years.
But I would rather have them than not.
I'd say that is extremely remote at best.
The Falklands conflict was also extremely remote at best until it happened.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

topman
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by topman »

abc123 wrote:
topman wrote:
abc123 wrote:
topman wrote: Are we likely to call up a load of oil tankers any time soon?
I don't know. Do you know that?
It might be tomorrow or in 20 years.
But I would rather have them than not.
I'd say that is extremely remote at best.
The Falklands conflict was also extremely remote at best until it happened.
How many ships are on the British register?
How many have we ever called up?
How often does it happen?
Is this something that we need to worry about?

bobp
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by bobp »

Looks like the UK are joining the US effort in the Gulf.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/u ... spartanntp

SW1
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by SW1 »

Surely you would be planning operations based on the premise your using civil tankers, end of the world planning I can see but for anything else no way.

Given the commercial market and the liberalisation of flagging vessels if we started taking ships up from trade do you think many would continue flagging a vessel to the uk after such an event or run for the hills.

lloyds list recons there’s about 20-30 uk flagged vessels in the gulf each day and about 5 that transit the strait, so perhaps there’s a certain amount of hyperbole going on.

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

UK joining the US in Hormuz patrolling coalition?

https://www.military.com/daily-news/201 ... ZIB5jZMb50
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

Lord Jim
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Lord Jim »

It was bound to happen, The EU and Europe as a whole cannot organise a piss up in a brewery these days if ever. Surely this was the sort of mission the new German Frigates were designed for? Well we should still priorities those vessels belonging to dependable friends at least and maybe other nations might get off their arses if their flagged vessels become targets of unfriendly action.

topman
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by topman »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49362182

Latest move. I'm not that surprised it's been released.

Lord Jim
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Lord Jim »

Well it would be easier for the US to let the Tanker leave Gib. territorial waters and then board it themselves.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

What a surprise that Iran wants to get piracy off the charge sheet, as the UN meeting opens in NY:
"FILE PHOTO: Stena Impero, a British-flagged vessel owned by Stena Bulk, is seen at undisclosed place off the coast of Bandar Abbas, Iran August 22, 2019. Nazanin Tabatabaee/WANA (West Asia News Agency) via REUTERS.

Stena Impero, the British-flagged tanker detained by Iran on July 19, may be released within hours, the head of the Swedish firm that owns the vessel said on Sunday."
- err. there were other things on the same sheet
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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SKB
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by SKB »

Stena Impero has been released by Iran and is now sailing to Dubai.
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/ho ... .8/zoom:10

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

topman wrote:How do you know that the companies are interested or willing to engage in convoys?
The quote is from end of July; does anyone know more about these things that yesterday's piece in the Guardian refers to?
"The US has been responding to the escalating tensions with a military build-up in the Gulf and on Thursday launched a new operation with its allies from Bahrain to protect navigation in Gulf waters. The Iranians, with Russian support, are touting a rival plan to bring peace to the Strait of Hormuz, involving its regional partners."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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