Islamic Republic of Iran

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Phil Sayers
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Phil Sayers »

Nothing much the government could have done at short notice about the naval assets in the region (except possibly using the minehunter force as escorts which would carry the risk of them being attacked by a swarm) but surely it wouldn't have been that difficult to send some Typhoons to Oman or the UAE in a hurry? Just having six of them there would have allowed regular air patrols over the Gulf and I don't think a speedboat would much fancy being buzzed at low level by one. Sending some Wildcats would also have made a lot of sense.

I appreciate the government might have felt that visibly rushing assets to the region could trigger the very action the deployment would have been seeking to prevent but it isn't like Tehran were being subtle about their intentions.....

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SKB
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

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Lord Jim
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

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This episode doe highlight how the Royal Navy, like the Army and Air Force have become capable of only conducting a single mission in anything but token strength. Yet this will still have zero impact on how our Politician fund the military or how large they are. Even if the next Prime Minister acknowledges this it will take years for any funding increase to actually make any difference. All this has shown how this country is led by a herd of Donkeys and that is even an insult to donkeys.

PapaGolf
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by PapaGolf »

The Iranians seem hell bent on starting a war; limpet mines on tankers, shooting down drones, taking tankers, buzzing US ships with drones and much more no doubt.

Why?

Lord Jim
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Lord Jim »

They like other nations realise that the West has very little appetite for taking military action after years of conflict against IS and the Taliban. They will continue to push things until they believe they have reached the point just before military retaliation is certain. They believe in action rather then words. Just how far the West is willing to let them go is difficult to identify, but the UK is a far easier target for their actions than the US once we provoked them, no matter how legal the seizing to he tanker off Gib was.

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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by RetroSicotte »

abc123 wrote:Now, with mentioned forces in place, can you honestly tell me that the UK plc is capable to make such an endeavor except during a full war?
When a hostile nation makes a direct threat, you deploy. That all could have been in place within a week, easily, and prevent this. Iran can't take a convoy ship guarded by air and sea. All that could have been within within days.

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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by SW1 »

PapaGolf wrote:The Iranians seem hell bent on starting a war; limpet mines on tankers, shooting down drones, taking tankers, buzzing US ships with drones and much more no doubt.

Why?
Because the sanctions are biting hard and they’re lashing out in the hope they can provoke a response and present themselves as the injured party to world opinion.

bobp
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by bobp »

Lord Jim wrote:This episode doe highlight how the Royal Navy, like the Army and Air Force have become capable of only conducting a single mission in anything but token strength. Yet this will still have zero impact on how our Politician fund the military or how large they are. Even if the next Prime Minister acknowledges this it will take years for any funding increase to actually make any difference. All this has shown how this country is led by a herd of Donkeys and that is even an insult to donkeys.
Meanwhile the cost of the HS2 rail project is expected to rise to 86bn, so they could slash the defence budget even more

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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by bobp »

Stena Impero is now flying the Iranian flag.

topman
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by topman »

RetroSicotte wrote:
abc123 wrote:Now, with mentioned forces in place, can you honestly tell me that the UK plc is capable to make such an endeavor except during a full war?
When a hostile nation makes a direct threat, you deploy. That all could have been in place within a week, easily, and prevent this. Iran can't take a convoy ship guarded by air and sea. All that could have been within within days.
I'm not sure you could get all that within a few days.

They government did consider at the COBRA meetings adding additional forces, the thinking was increasing forces might well bring on what we seek to avoid.
Although I think your earlier list is a little unrealistic.

The real choice was whether or not to take the tanker off gib.

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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

topman wrote: The real choice was whether or not to take the tanker off gib.
Agreed. At least until you have forces in place. There will be more tankers to Syria.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

RetroSicotte
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by RetroSicotte »

topman wrote:I'm not sure you could get all that within a few days.

They government did consider at the COBRA meetings adding additional forces, the thinking was increasing forces might well bring on what we seek to avoid.
Although I think your earlier list is a little unrealistic.
Not really. All of it was easily doable. The infrastructure already exists, the assets exist, and a direct threat was made (and/or could be anticipated prior to the Gibraltar stopping).

If the Government are unwilling to use forces in an easy, limited deployment to protect against a direct threat that has an obvious and simple solution, then what does that say about their willingness to use them should worse ever happen anywhere in the world? By acting, it would have been prevented, and 20+ people would not now be held hostage in a hostile nation.

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

But why didn't the HMS Montrose launch Wildcat to help the tanker? 30 nm are a hour of sailing for a shop, but just 10 minutes for Wildcat...
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

RetroSicotte
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by RetroSicotte »

abc123 wrote:But why didn't the HMS Montrose launch Wildcat to help the tanker? 30 nm are a hour of sailing for a shop, but just 10 minutes for Wildcat...
Because a single helo with just a .50 and a handful of men against multiple Mi's, a whole team of special forces, and several boats likely with anti-air isn't going to do a damn thing except fly around looking helpless.

The Bay class accompanying with an Apache gunship flown out to launch from it, or having Typhoons with Brimstones and ASRAAMs offering support, however...

The real solution though was to use convoys. That's the big failing above all of them.

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

RetroSicotte wrote: The real solution though was to use convoys. That's the big failing above all of them.
Agreed. :thumbup:
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

RAF>FAN
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by RAF>FAN »

If we send 4 major surface ships that's about 30% of our available fleet.....how depressing is that?

RetroSicotte
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by RetroSicotte »

RAF>FAN wrote:If we send 4 major surface ships that's about 30% of our available fleet.....how depressing is that?
Quite.

Although at the same time. Are the other deployments currently going one more important than direct military threat on British assets? If we are going to work with such a small navy, then we need to accept that those other deployments will need called off to redeploy in a crisis.

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

RetroSicotte wrote:
RAF>FAN wrote:If we send 4 major surface ships that's about 30% of our available fleet.....how depressing is that?
Quite.

Although at the same time. Are the other deployments currently going one more important than direct military threat on British assets? If we are going to work with such a small navy, then we need to accept that those other deployments will need called off to redeploy in a crisis.
On the other hand, Britain is then easily fooled by such countries ( Russia, China, Iran etc. ) working in concert.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

topman
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by topman »

RetroSicotte wrote:
topman wrote:I'm not sure you could get all that within a few days.

They government did consider at the COBRA meetings adding additional forces, the thinking was increasing forces might well bring on what we seek to avoid.
Although I think your earlier list is a little unrealistic.
Not really. All of it was easily doable.
of course it is

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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by RetroSicotte »

topman wrote:of course it is
You contest that it is difficult to put a few men on a ship? Because the RMs demonstrated they were quite capable of that just a week prior.

Or that the RAF can't do air policing abroad? Because they're already doing that right now elsewhere too.

Or that they can't operate Apaches from ships? They've already done that in combat and are currently doing so on QE.

Do you have any evidence that says those capabilities have been suddenly lost in the last couple weeks?

It's already been stated via Deborah that the MoD had answers ready to go, it was the Gov who didn't give them the 'Go'.

topman
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by topman »

That to do all what you suggest in the time frame, in some meaningful way, isn't 'easily doable'.

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SKB
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

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Image

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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SKB
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by SKB »

That's bull. UK never discloses where it sends nuclear submarines.

Lord Jim
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Lord Jim »

But HMG is not above dropping hints from time to time when it might be of use even if it not actual fact. that is the great thing about SSNs you can say you are possibly going to send one to a certain region and by their nature it is hard for others to prove or disprove whether one is actually in station.

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