Islamic Republic of Iran
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
Nothing much the government could have done at short notice about the naval assets in the region (except possibly using the minehunter force as escorts which would carry the risk of them being attacked by a swarm) but surely it wouldn't have been that difficult to send some Typhoons to Oman or the UAE in a hurry? Just having six of them there would have allowed regular air patrols over the Gulf and I don't think a speedboat would much fancy being buzzed at low level by one. Sending some Wildcats would also have made a lot of sense.
I appreciate the government might have felt that visibly rushing assets to the region could trigger the very action the deployment would have been seeking to prevent but it isn't like Tehran were being subtle about their intentions.....
I appreciate the government might have felt that visibly rushing assets to the region could trigger the very action the deployment would have been seeking to prevent but it isn't like Tehran were being subtle about their intentions.....
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
This episode doe highlight how the Royal Navy, like the Army and Air Force have become capable of only conducting a single mission in anything but token strength. Yet this will still have zero impact on how our Politician fund the military or how large they are. Even if the next Prime Minister acknowledges this it will take years for any funding increase to actually make any difference. All this has shown how this country is led by a herd of Donkeys and that is even an insult to donkeys.
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
The Iranians seem hell bent on starting a war; limpet mines on tankers, shooting down drones, taking tankers, buzzing US ships with drones and much more no doubt.
Why?
Why?
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
They like other nations realise that the West has very little appetite for taking military action after years of conflict against IS and the Taliban. They will continue to push things until they believe they have reached the point just before military retaliation is certain. They believe in action rather then words. Just how far the West is willing to let them go is difficult to identify, but the UK is a far easier target for their actions than the US once we provoked them, no matter how legal the seizing to he tanker off Gib was.
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
When a hostile nation makes a direct threat, you deploy. That all could have been in place within a week, easily, and prevent this. Iran can't take a convoy ship guarded by air and sea. All that could have been within within days.abc123 wrote:Now, with mentioned forces in place, can you honestly tell me that the UK plc is capable to make such an endeavor except during a full war?
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
Because the sanctions are biting hard and they’re lashing out in the hope they can provoke a response and present themselves as the injured party to world opinion.PapaGolf wrote:The Iranians seem hell bent on starting a war; limpet mines on tankers, shooting down drones, taking tankers, buzzing US ships with drones and much more no doubt.
Why?
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
Meanwhile the cost of the HS2 rail project is expected to rise to 86bn, so they could slash the defence budget even moreLord Jim wrote:This episode doe highlight how the Royal Navy, like the Army and Air Force have become capable of only conducting a single mission in anything but token strength. Yet this will still have zero impact on how our Politician fund the military or how large they are. Even if the next Prime Minister acknowledges this it will take years for any funding increase to actually make any difference. All this has shown how this country is led by a herd of Donkeys and that is even an insult to donkeys.
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
I'm not sure you could get all that within a few days.RetroSicotte wrote:When a hostile nation makes a direct threat, you deploy. That all could have been in place within a week, easily, and prevent this. Iran can't take a convoy ship guarded by air and sea. All that could have been within within days.abc123 wrote:Now, with mentioned forces in place, can you honestly tell me that the UK plc is capable to make such an endeavor except during a full war?
They government did consider at the COBRA meetings adding additional forces, the thinking was increasing forces might well bring on what we seek to avoid.
Although I think your earlier list is a little unrealistic.
The real choice was whether or not to take the tanker off gib.
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
Agreed. At least until you have forces in place. There will be more tankers to Syria.topman wrote: The real choice was whether or not to take the tanker off gib.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
Not really. All of it was easily doable. The infrastructure already exists, the assets exist, and a direct threat was made (and/or could be anticipated prior to the Gibraltar stopping).topman wrote:I'm not sure you could get all that within a few days.
They government did consider at the COBRA meetings adding additional forces, the thinking was increasing forces might well bring on what we seek to avoid.
Although I think your earlier list is a little unrealistic.
If the Government are unwilling to use forces in an easy, limited deployment to protect against a direct threat that has an obvious and simple solution, then what does that say about their willingness to use them should worse ever happen anywhere in the world? By acting, it would have been prevented, and 20+ people would not now be held hostage in a hostile nation.
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
But why didn't the HMS Montrose launch Wildcat to help the tanker? 30 nm are a hour of sailing for a shop, but just 10 minutes for Wildcat...
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
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- Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:10
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
Because a single helo with just a .50 and a handful of men against multiple Mi's, a whole team of special forces, and several boats likely with anti-air isn't going to do a damn thing except fly around looking helpless.abc123 wrote:But why didn't the HMS Montrose launch Wildcat to help the tanker? 30 nm are a hour of sailing for a shop, but just 10 minutes for Wildcat...
The Bay class accompanying with an Apache gunship flown out to launch from it, or having Typhoons with Brimstones and ASRAAMs offering support, however...
The real solution though was to use convoys. That's the big failing above all of them.
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
Agreed.RetroSicotte wrote: The real solution though was to use convoys. That's the big failing above all of them.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
If we send 4 major surface ships that's about 30% of our available fleet.....how depressing is that?
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
Quite.RAF>FAN wrote:If we send 4 major surface ships that's about 30% of our available fleet.....how depressing is that?
Although at the same time. Are the other deployments currently going one more important than direct military threat on British assets? If we are going to work with such a small navy, then we need to accept that those other deployments will need called off to redeploy in a crisis.
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
On the other hand, Britain is then easily fooled by such countries ( Russia, China, Iran etc. ) working in concert.RetroSicotte wrote:Quite.RAF>FAN wrote:If we send 4 major surface ships that's about 30% of our available fleet.....how depressing is that?
Although at the same time. Are the other deployments currently going one more important than direct military threat on British assets? If we are going to work with such a small navy, then we need to accept that those other deployments will need called off to redeploy in a crisis.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
of course it isRetroSicotte wrote:Not really. All of it was easily doable.topman wrote:I'm not sure you could get all that within a few days.
They government did consider at the COBRA meetings adding additional forces, the thinking was increasing forces might well bring on what we seek to avoid.
Although I think your earlier list is a little unrealistic.
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
You contest that it is difficult to put a few men on a ship? Because the RMs demonstrated they were quite capable of that just a week prior.topman wrote:of course it is
Or that the RAF can't do air policing abroad? Because they're already doing that right now elsewhere too.
Or that they can't operate Apaches from ships? They've already done that in combat and are currently doing so on QE.
Do you have any evidence that says those capabilities have been suddenly lost in the last couple weeks?
It's already been stated via Deborah that the MoD had answers ready to go, it was the Gov who didn't give them the 'Go'.
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
That to do all what you suggest in the time frame, in some meaningful way, isn't 'easily doable'.
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Islamic Republic of Iran
But HMG is not above dropping hints from time to time when it might be of use even if it not actual fact. that is the great thing about SSNs you can say you are possibly going to send one to a certain region and by their nature it is hard for others to prove or disprove whether one is actually in station.