Islamic Republic of Iran

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
Little J
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Little J »

They've taken 2 tankers now...

bobp
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by bobp »

Bad news. Sadly there is little we can do, due to ship, ammunition and crew shortages. Hope someone in power will realise time is up and we must invest in our forces urgently. Number one priority must be getting the tanker crews home.

RetroSicotte
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by RetroSicotte »

bobp wrote:Bad news. Sadly there is little we can do, due to ship, ammunition and crew shortages. Hope someone in power will realise time is up and we must invest in our forces urgently. Number one priority must be getting the tanker crews home.
Only way for that is negotiation by likely releasing the one held by sanctions.

A national humiliation, basically. Proof that the Royal Navy (because of the UK Gov) can no longer protect British interests even when given explicit prior warning that it will happen.

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SKB
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by SKB »

Maybe the government will now finally wake up and build a proper blue water sized RN fleet. instead of a micro-sized inshore one.
I doubt it, but needs saying.

Caribbean
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Caribbean »

The BBC are alleging that Montrose arrived "minutes too late to intervene"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49054318
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

Yeeeep, a pretty hard slap on Britain's face by Iran ... :problem:
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

S M H
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by S M H »

Caribbean wrote:The BBC are alleging that Montrose arrived "minutes too late to intervene"
The plain fact is we have so small a navy to provide the required ships to for a escort service for U.K. registered shipping for a enduring operation. The 2010 defence cuts are coming to bite us in the arse. The Revolutionary Guard have there own internal political agenda. Making the diplomatic resolution complicated. As they will probably disagree with any political resolution similar incidents will take place. Hoping to provoke or escalate the situation to further there own agenda . It is noticeable that they didn't target a U.S. registered vessel. though the Iranians by this incident my really aiming at the U.S. especially as the Spanish stated that Grace one was stopped at the bequest of the Americans and we are little satan. If there was a diplomatic prosses in progress underway with the Iranian government for the Grace one. This may have been effectively be a internal put down by the Clerical over government of Iran stating it supremacy. This is going to be one diplomatic nightmare.

RetroSicotte
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by RetroSicotte »

What stands out to me is that it even happened, and 24 hours later there STILL isn't any rapid movements to get more forces out there to guard the others. It's STILL just one ship wandering around.

Iran even proved it. Why does anyone think they took two tankers? Because there was only one ship. Even if HMS Monstrose had intercepted, they'd have just taken the other one. That was why they did a double attack. They were getting it no matter what.

The idea that an enemy might attack in more than one place at once when they have hundreds of these things never once occurred to the people making decisions up top befuddles me to an incredible extent.

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

RetroSicotte wrote:What stands out to me is that it even happened, and 24 hours later there STILL isn't any rapid movements to get more forces out there to guard the others. It's STILL just one ship wandering around.
Maybe because they have nothing to send? And with just 8 T26 and 6 SSNs things will be even worse...
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

Little J
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Little J »

...........

topman
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by topman »

RetroSicotte wrote:What stands out to me is that it even happened, and 24 hours later there STILL isn't any rapid movements to get more forces out there to guard the others. It's STILL just one ship wandering around.

Iran even proved it. Why does anyone think they took two tankers? Because there was only one ship. Even if HMS Monstrose had intercepted, they'd have just taken the other one. That was why they did a double attack. They were getting it no matter what.

The idea that an enemy might attack in more than one place at once when they have hundreds of these things never once occurred to the people making decisions up top befuddles me to an incredible extent.
Iirc hms duncan was sent out a few days ago.

zanahoria
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by zanahoria »

Sky Views: Tanker crisis requires decisive action on Iran or UK will be seen as soft target by Deborah Haynes

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-ta ... t-11766839

Caribbean
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Caribbean »

From the Sky piece above:
Defence experts have warned for years that the moment when Britain finally acknowledges what some see as a self-inflicted act of national vandalism (in terms of cost-saving cuts to the military) will be when we suffer a defeat or catastrophic failure on the international stage.
Somewhat apposite, methinks
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

bobp
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by bobp »

Embarrassing that our Navy is helpless to react, but also that our Government has put us in this dire situation. If Iran gets away with this what else will they try.

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whitelancer
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by whitelancer »

Its situations like this where you want low end, but well armed warships which are so often derided on this site.

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clivestonehouse1
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by clivestonehouse1 »

Don't worry, the subs are on their way.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

clivestonehouse1 wrote:Don't worry, the subs are on their way. Image

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Yeah, maybe even two of them... :yawn:
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

IMHO, this state of neither war nor peace it the worst thing possible for the RN/UK/West. Even a full blown war would be better, that would at least alllow to strike a strong blow to Iran, especially to their nuclear facilities. This way, Iran is just every day closer to the bomb.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

RetroSicotte
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by RetroSicotte »

abc123 wrote:Maybe because they have nothing to send? And with just 8 T26 and 6 SSNs things will be even worse...
Have Apaches/Wildcats patroling near ships.
Put Royal Marines on every British tanker.
Have Typhoons running lines with Brimstone.
Have Sentinel keeping watch on them.
Bring the Bay class vessel in the area arouind to support further helo launches.
Order British flagged tankers move in convoys rather than all individually.

There were plenty of optionsd to surge protective elements or measures into place. They didn't do a single thing but allow one ship to be the only element. Anyone could have known they would just attack two at once to ensure they got one. When a state directly threatens you, and has proven they will do it, then you take actions.

Instead they just sat and let it happen.
topman wrote:Iirc hms duncan was sent out a few days ago.
Was never going to arrive on time.

Air assets should have gone the day the threat was made.
clivestonehouse1 wrote:Don't worry, the subs are on their way.
Subs are pretty useless against speedboats and helos. And either way whats done is done. Horse. Stable. Bolted.

RetroSicotte
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by RetroSicotte »

zanahoria wrote:Sky Views: Tanker crisis requires decisive action on Iran or UK will be seen as soft target by Deborah Haynes

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-ta ... t-11766839
Pertinent note from this:

In response, Britain belatedly sped up the deployment of a second major warship to the Gulf - HMS Duncan - and said a third major vessel will be dispatched in the coming weeks.

But it has not sent anywhere near enough military hardware with sufficient haste to deter Iranian fast boats from targeting British-linked ships in the Strait of Hormuz.

This has left some within the Ministry of Defence feeling frustrated because a range of military options had been drawn up, just not green-lighted, according to a second source.
ie - It was all ready to go, but a useless government didn't care to give it any attention.

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clivestonehouse1
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by clivestonehouse1 »

abc123 wrote:
clivestonehouse1 wrote:Don't worry, the subs are on their way. Image

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Yeah, maybe even two of them... :yawn:
There's not enough harry maskers and rubber bands in stores for two to deploy at the same time.
Be realistic Image

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by Caribbean »

bobp wrote:Number one priority must be getting the tanker crews home.
Well, the only thing "British" about the tanker that was taken is it's registration. Hopefully Sweden and the other countries, whose nationals have been abducted, will put pressure on Iran to return the ship and crew, as well as pressuring the Omanis, Emiratis and Qataris to become more aggressive in protecting international shipping - between them they have a large number of corvettes, FACs and patrol boats that are well-suited to this sort of shipping protection work against small boats.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

RetroSicotte wrote:
abc123 wrote:Maybe because they have nothing to send? And with just 8 T26 and 6 SSNs things will be even worse...
Have Apaches/Wildcats patroling near ships.
Put Royal Marines on every British tanker.
Have Typhoons running lines with Brimstone.
Have Sentinel keeping watch on them.
Bring the Bay class vessel in the area arouind to support further helo launches.
Order British flagged tankers move in convoys rather than all individually.

There were plenty of optionsd to surge protective elements or measures into place. They didn't do a single thing but allow one ship to be the only element. Anyone could have known they would just attack two at once to ensure they got one. When a state directly threatens you, and has proven they will do it, then you take actions.

Instead they just sat and let it happen.

I agree, all these things could be in place, but they aren't.
And I think that we will agree that you don't have to be a genius to figure that Iran might retaliate in a same way- so IMHO, until the UK had sufficient forces in place ( at least 1-2 destroyers and 2-3 frigates plus at least one squadron of Typhoons supported by at least 2 tankers and 2 E-3 )- taking that tanker off Gibraltar was foolish and embarassing thing. Now, with mentioned forces in place, can you honestly tell me that the UK plc is capable to make such an endeavor except during a full war?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

inch
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by inch »

Just shows what a busted flush we have been left with, our forces and greatfolks serving totally let down by our total crap politicians

abc123
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Re: Islamic Republic of Iran

Post by abc123 »

Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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