UK Defence Forum

... ENTERPRISE is following in its sister ship's footsteps by being decommissioned at the end of this month.

What a hell is going on... Lack of man power, presumably?

It was a big question from where the crew for the 2 OSV's recently procured will be provided, MROSS(1) and MCM-OSV. I am much more getting confident that "lack of man-power" is the major issue for RN.

But both of those are going to be RFA manned. If you add onto this the crew being released from the MCMs and also the fact we are down on escorts, something doesn’t quite add up overall.

Repulse wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 14:14 But both of those are going to be RFA manned. If you add onto this the crew being released from the MCMs and also the fact we are down on escorts, something doesn’t quite add up overall.

I also thought that the 2 OSVs will required RFA crew. However, we all know there is NOT redundant RFA crew.

In near future, the 3 FSSS to come will eat the crew of Fort Victoria, Argus, and one more vessel. This "one more" will be "one of the 3 Bays, 4 Tides, and 3 FSSS in rotation for long maintenance", I guess. If we want to keep Argus until MRSS comes, "2 vessels out of 11 in long maintenance" will be needed (might be acceptable).

But, anyway, there is no crew for the 2 OSVs.

As RFA vessels are all mix-crewed with RFA and RN members, I "guess" some flexibility may exists. Thus, I thought the crew of HMS Enterprise will "eventually" fill the 2 OSVs. Just an assumption.

That maybe the case and you would think the crew of a survey vessel would have the sort of skills required to do underwater surveying just maybe not the need for a 20mm and grey funnel in home waters.

In terms of overall manpower levels the split between RN and RFA is not fixed and the Navy could move budget from RN to RFA personnel if it wanted to.

Interesting comparison of current MCMVs and (presumably) MCM USVs.

Excellent overview
https://www.navylookout.com/royal-navy- ... sharp-end/

Mind the gap!

Many interesting USVs in the Maritime Robotics.

https://www.maritimerobotics.com/

9m version, MarinerX
6m version, Mariner
and
2m version, Otter Pro.

https://www.maritimerobotics.com/_files ... 78b29f.pdf
https://www.maritimerobotics.com/_files ... c64d01.pdf
https://www.maritimerobotics.com/_files ... a1736a.pdf

The 9 meter X could even be deployed from a RB2

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑30 Mar 2023, 16:33 Mind the gap!

Might need a bigger drone to cover what HMS Enterprise did in evacuating nationals during the Libyan conflict…

Saw on thir twitter feed that remaining blue and white colour rather than RN grey.

from my understanding,
The MHC programme is procuring up to 6 Mine Countermeasures (MCM) Maritime Autonomous Mission Systems (MAS), up to 4 MCM (LSV) and a UK MCM (OSV, Stirling castle), STUFT . The Mission Systems and LSVs will deliver a global MCM effect, while the OSV will enable UK offshore operations. The programme will replace the Hunt and Sandown Class MCMVs. The Mission Systems can be deployed by air, land and sea and will eventually be capability of operating from a number of RN, RFA or suitable commercial vessels; including T26 and future ships.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... o_2032.pdf

new guy wrote: ↑23 Apr 2023, 19:52 from my understanding,
The MHC programme is procuring up to 6 Mine Countermeasures (MCM) Maritime Autonomous Mission Systems (MAS), up to 4 MCM (LSV) and a UK MCM (OSV, Stirling castle), STUFT . The Mission Systems and LSVs will deliver a global MCM effect, while the OSV will enable UK offshore operations. The programme will replace the Hunt and Sandown Class MCMVs. The Mission Systems can be deployed by air, land and sea and will eventually be capability of operating from a number of RN, RFA or suitable commercial vessels; including T26 and future ships.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... o_2032.pdf

Good summary. One thing to add is MHC block-1, which is totally missing from this list.

MHC block-1 delivers,
- 3 Mine Hunting MCM USV systems: 2 at Stirling, 1 at Persian Gulf (including 2 Atlas-UK ARCIMS USVs)
- 3 Mine Sweeping MCM USV systems: 3 influence sweep kits, with 3 Atlas-UK ARCIMS USVs.
There are 5 Atlas-UK ARCIMS USVs ordered/delivered. The list requires 6 hulls, and I guess it is Thales USV? (not sure).

Good thing is, UK already has / in initial operation phase of 5 Atlas-UK ARCIMS USVs.

And another 6 systems (and LSV/OSVs) are coming in MHC block-2, as you summarized.

Report on the first ACRIMS USV deployed to the Gulf, on board RFA Cardigan Bay.

donald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑24 Apr 2023, 03:10 Report on the first ACRIMS USV deployed to the Gulf, on board RFA Cardigan Bay.

According to The Times she's headed for Port Sudan to assist in the evacuation.

Curious what will happen to the MHC gear.

Jensy wrote: ↑25 Apr 2023, 01:24

donald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑24 Apr 2023, 03:10 Report on the first ACRIMS USV deployed to the Gulf, on board RFA Cardigan Bay.

According to The Times she's headed for Port Sudan to assist in the evacuation.

Curious what will happen to the MHC gear.

Nope. Cardigan bay is in maintenance right now. Miss leading like the story on PoW. Only RAF will be able to do the evacuation.

new guy wrote: ↑25 Apr 2023, 16:23

Jensy wrote: ↑25 Apr 2023, 01:24

donald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑24 Apr 2023, 03:10 Report on the first ACRIMS USV deployed to the Gulf, on board RFA Cardigan Bay.

According to The Times she's headed for Port Sudan to assist in the evacuation.

Curious what will happen to the MHC gear.

Nope. Cardigan bay is in maintenance right now. Miss leading like the story on PoW. Only RAF will be able to do the evacuation.

Ben Wallace said last night that the EoS type 23 would be going along side in Port Sudan Today and that the Gulf based Bay was making her way to the Red Sea to standby for HADR ops if needed

Also a Point class is in the Red Sea now

Tempest414 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023, 11:34

new guy wrote: ↑25 Apr 2023, 16:23

Jensy wrote: ↑25 Apr 2023, 01:24

donald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑24 Apr 2023, 03:10 Report on the first ACRIMS USV deployed to the Gulf, on board RFA Cardigan Bay.

According to The Times she's headed for Port Sudan to assist in the evacuation.

Curious what will happen to the MHC gear.

Nope. Cardigan bay is in maintenance right now. Miss leading like the story on PoW. Only RAF will be able to do the evacuation.

Ben Wallace said last night that the EoS type 23 would be going along side in Port Sudan Today and that the Gulf based Bay was making her way to the Red Sea to standby for HADR ops if needed

Also a Point class is in the Red Sea now

Thanks. I heard that the bay was in maintenance in Duqm. I meant that i did not see 1 T23 as a effective evacuation platform for the whole evacuation (Quite obvious) of 4,000 people. However, with just the one T23 it would be perhaps effective for a few people not based in Khartoum. Now with the fact of a point class and the bay it seems effective for potentially a few hundred.

So maybe 15 of these built by Babcocks to replace the OPV's , MRoSS and LSV's

Tempest414 wrote: ↑10 Sep 2023, 11:08 So maybe 15 of these built by Babcocks to replace the OPV's , MRoSS and LSV's

As mentioned in the actual video, that is a placeholder design until the consortium finishes theirs.

I think a militarised/faster / more OPV version of this would be good:
https://www.kongsberg.com/maritime/ship ... el-design/

25 core crew, 50 common complement ( 25 Mission specialists) total capacity for 100 ( 50 EMF). (So like the RB2).
1 merlin flight deck+hanger for 2 ( width is big enough)
2 spots aft and forward for 20mm, 30mm, 40mm.
We need 12 MCMV for the NATOMCMG1&2, home, kipion, black and baltic sea requirements.
The UK gov will probably want greater international presence, and we can't really afford frigates for that, so lets say + 10 OPV's instead of just 5 (RB1 rep) for the roll of 'Global Patrol Vessel'.
. + some extra for MROSS,
+ some for a Logistics / multi-role / tender / maintence ship role.
12-10-2-6?
£100m each?

donald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑24 Apr 2023, 02:46

new guy wrote: ↑23 Apr 2023, 19:52 from my understanding,
The MHC programme is procuring up to 6 Mine Countermeasures (MCM) Maritime Autonomous Mission Systems (MAS), up to 4 MCM (LSV) and a UK MCM (OSV, Stirling castle), STUFT . The Mission Systems and LSVs will deliver a global MCM effect, while the OSV will enable UK offshore operations. The programme will replace the Hunt and Sandown Class MCMVs. The Mission Systems can be deployed by air, land and sea and will eventually be capability of operating from a number of RN, RFA or suitable commercial vessels; including T26 and future ships.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... o_2032.pdf

Good summary. One thing to add is MHC block-1, which is totally missing from this list.

MHC block-1 delivers,
- 3 Mine Hunting MCM USV systems: 2 at Stirling, 1 at Persian Gulf (including 2 Atlas-UK ARCIMS USVs)
- 3 Mine Sweeping MCM USV systems: 3 influence sweep kits, with 3 Atlas-UK ARCIMS USVs.
There are 5 Atlas-UK ARCIMS USVs ordered/delivered. The list requires 6 hulls, and I guess it is Thales USV? (not sure).

Good thing is, UK already has / in initial operation phase of 5 Atlas-UK ARCIMS USVs.

And another 6 systems (and LSV/OSVs) are coming in MHC block-2, as you summarized.

Saw a thread on X or formerly Twitter, showing pictures of each of these systems in operation or testing at sea, with initial post and 17 replis with loads of pictures:

Nice movie.