Mine countermeasures and Hydrographic capability (MHC) (MHPC)

[SW1]

Anyone know what the Echo Class crane could handle? Appreciate the A-frame probably isn't up to the task.



Wonder how much life we could have gotten from them if the money (and crew) was there.

The crane was able to lift 2 tonnes I think. The draft for the survey boat which was 10.5m and able to lift 9 tonnes.

Would of kept these over other stuff they’ve kept.

[Repulse]

Anyone know what the Echo Class crane could handle? Appreciate the A-frame probably isn't up to the task.



Wonder how much life we could have gotten from them if the money (and crew) was there.

The crane was able to lift 2 tonnes I think. The draft for the survey boat which was 10.5m and able to lift 9 tonnes.

Would of kept these over other stuff they’ve kept.

Was never quite sure why they didn’t replace a couple of the B1 Rivers. I heard they had propulsion issues which is perhaps a reason, but agree a big shame.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Anyone know what the Echo Class crane could handle? Appreciate the A-frame probably isn't up to the task.



Wonder how much life we could have gotten from them if the money (and crew) was there.

The crane was able to lift 2 tonnes I think. The draft for the survey boat which was 10.5m and able to lift 9 tonnes.

Would of kept these over other stuff they’ve kept.

Was never quite sure why they didn’t replace a couple of the B1 Rivers. I heard they had propulsion issues which is perhaps a reason, but agree a big shame.

Echo is slower than River B1. Larger and hence needs more maintenance. No merit as a patrol asset, I can find?

[Repulse]

Echo is slower than River B1. Larger and hence needs more maintenance. No merit as a patrol asset, I can find?

Absolutely agree the B1 Rivers are faster, however the Echos were designed to operate off board systems and act as a MCM mothership. Given the larger underwater threat in UK waters from Russia this is just as important, if not more, than chasing ships slowly going through our EEZ with their accompanying tugs. Also, by keeping them it would have given additional capabilities to offer to JEF.

The reality IMO is that we need either a UK patrol class that can act as a mothership and a class that has speed, or a single class that can do both.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Echo is slower than River B1. Larger and hence needs more maintenance. No merit as a patrol asset, I can find?

Absolutely agree the B1 Rivers are faster, however the Echos were designed to operate off board systems and act as a MCM mothership. Given the larger underwater threat in UK waters from Russia this is just as important, if not more, than chasing ships slowly going through our EEZ with their accompanying tugs. Also, by keeping them it would have given additional capabilities to offer to JEF.

The reality IMO is that we need either a UK patrol class that can act as a mothership and a class that has speed, or a single class that can do both.

Not bad idea, I agree. But, it is always NOT clear for me, what MCM assets or operate off board systems are RN going to use for now? By the time they are ready, I guess Echo's age exceeds its nominal useful age? So, disbanding Echo is not good (man power shortage is not good), but not bad (if anything shall be gone, Echo will be a candidate).

Also, PSV has much larger capacity, cheaper to operate, and even with younger hulls available, to handle MCM USVs.

I think UK shall have PSV-type LSV/OSVs for MCM, and 8 River class OPVs. The current plan is very nice.

[new guy]

In conclusion it would require an expensive refit of the vessel, one that can't operate both SWEEP and MMCM at the same time, has no growth room and on a hull that has already seen 20 years of service life.


A question I would ask instead is why wasn't HMS Enterprise (HMS Echo was let go a few years earlier) retained to do MROSS, which is basically what she was doing before? That RFA Proteus vs HMS Enterprise question is one that seems to be more appropriate to ask, but one that is also easier to answer: Money.

Basically my conclusion above sums it up 🡅

[tomuk]

In conclusion it would require an expensive refit of the vessel, one that can't operate both SWEEP and MMCM at the same time, has no growth room and on a hull that has already seen 20 years of service life.


A question I would ask instead is why wasn't HMS Enterprise (HMS Echo was let go a few years earlier) retained to do MROSS, which is basically what she was doing before? That RFA Proteus vs HMS Enterprise question is one that seems to be more appropriate to ask, but one that is also easier to answer: Money.

Basically my conclusion above sums it up 🡅

When you say money RFA Proteus wasn't free and Enterprise was already extent. Is it not more the case of the type of ROV desired and the appropriateness of the vessel to operate it from are larger factors. Proteus can do it more or less out of the box. Enterprise probably could too only after conversion works as well as a major refit it probably also needs after 20 years service. And you've then got a 20 plus year old ship with a 25 year design life.

[new guy]

In conclusion it would require an expensive refit of the vessel, one that can't operate both SWEEP and MMCM at the same time, has no growth room and on a hull that has already seen 20 years of service life.


A question I would ask instead is why wasn't HMS Enterprise (HMS Echo was let go a few years earlier) retained to do MROSS, which is basically what she was doing before? That RFA Proteus vs HMS Enterprise question is one that seems to be more appropriate to ask, but one that is also easier to answer: Money.

Basically my conclusion above sums it up 🡅

When you say money RFA Proteus wasn't free and Enterprise was already extent. Is it not more the case of the type of ROV desired and the appropriateness of the vessel to operate it from are larger factors. Proteus can do it more or less out of the box. Enterprise probably could too only after conversion works as well as a major refit it probably also needs after 20 years service. And you've then got a 20 plus year old ship with a 25 year design life.

that's pretty much what I mean .

[Ian Hall]

[SKB]

RFA Stirling Castle

(Forces News) 18th April 2024

RFA Stirling Castle – the newest ship in the Royal Fleet Auxiliary - is continuing her training to develop the Royal Navy's autonomous mine-hunting capability.

The former offshore support vessel is working with the Royal Navy's Mine & Threat Exploitation Group – the unit that specialises in detecting and neutralising ordnance threats at sea.

Forces News has been on board to see how the minehunting mother ship will help the group carry out that task.