Pakistan

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Pakistan

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

South Africa is busy trying to pally up with the Sunni front (while seeking UN permission to sell AA missiles to Iran):

"foster collaboration between defence respective industry heavyweights – Denel Land Systems and Denel Aviation in South Africa, and the Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in Pakistan. A joint committee will be formed to oversee cooperation.

Mapisa-Nqakula, along with a high-level delegation, was visiting Pakistan for four days from March 26 to 29 after being invited by Khawaja. Throughout the meeting, Khawaja stated that Pakistan was reducing its dependence on Western nations and building new relationships.

“We are strengthening ties with allies like South Africa,” he said.

Only the week prior on March 23, Chinese and Saudi Arabian* troops, along with a Turkish band, marched alongside Pakistani troops during the Pakistan Day Parade, a day that celebrates when Muslims started advocating for an independent state in British India. South African National Defence Force Chief of Staff General Solly Zacharia Shoke also attended as a guest.

Read more at https://asiancorrespondent.com/2017/04/ ... hvbeuBx.99"

-----------
* It was about the same time when the UAV factory to build Chinese designs in S. Arabia was announced

China trying to resurrect the "non-aligned" bloc: PRC, Pakistan, KSA, RSA...
- what is the common denominator?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

rockey.udf
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Re: Pakistan

Post by rockey.udf »

The common denominator is evolved from centuries of subjugation that these peoples suffered under the Western Christian Civilization (WCC). These nations are simply aligning to confront WCC. Also to be noted is that in the emerging global polarization, China is endeavoring to tie up with all Muslim nations.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Pakistan

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I thought that it was the country either being run by the army (Pakistan, including 40% of the major businesses), the army (PLA) being the guarantor for perpetuating the power of a single party, or the army being run for the sole benefit of the ruling family/ closely associated class?
- RSA is still the odd one out; may be they are planning to go to a single party rule?

Funnily enough you find a good number of them here, on the ranking list of defence expenditure as % of GDP:
3 Saudi Arabia 87.2 13.7
19 Iraq Iraq 13.1 9.1
21 Algeria Algeria 10.4 6.2
14 United Arab Emirates 22.8 5.7
4 Russia Russia 66.4 5.4
15 Israel Israel 16.1 5.4
24 Colombia Colombia 9.9 3.5
26 Pakistan Pakistan 9.5 3.4

The far more populous neighbours (Iran, India) looming large in the thinking is of course part of the picture, but there is more to it, feeling threatened. Otherwise Canada and Luxembourg would be topping the list.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

rockey.udf
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Re: Pakistan

Post by rockey.udf »

Every nation must be free to select how it is to be run. For instance the fact hat the British people are subject of the English monarch, who is also the religious head, should not cause eyebrows to raise elsewhere. If the British feel comfortable with the class system and hereditary aristocracy others should have no issue. China allows multiple political parties. But on ground it is the all encompassing Communist Party. In the Muslim tradition, the military has a political role. Pakistan's case is unique. Pakistanis firmly believe Indians never reconciled with Pakistan's emergence.

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SKB
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Re: Pakistan

Post by SKB »

rockey.udf wrote:For instance the fact hat the British people are subject of the English monarch,
Queen Elizabeth II is the British Monarch, the thrones of England and Scotland were united in 1606. There hasn't been an "English monarch" or English throne for over 400 years.

LordJim
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Re: Pakistan

Post by LordJim »

If all these countries are aligning to confront your so called WCC, then why do the want to come and live there?

rockey.udf
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Re: Pakistan

Post by rockey.udf »

SKB wrote:
rockey.udf wrote:For instance the fact hat the British people are subject of the English monarch,
Queen Elizabeth II is the British Monarch, the thrones of England and Scotland were united in 1606. There hasn't been an "English monarch" or English throne for over 400 years.
The title says Queen or King of England.
SKB wrote:
rockey.udf wrote:For instance the fact hat the British people are subject of the English monarch,
Queen Elizabeth II is the British Monarch, the thrones of England and Scotland were united in 1606. There hasn't been an "English monarch" or English throne for over 400 years.
SKB wrote:
rockey.udf wrote:For instance the fact hat the British people are subject of the English monarch,
Queen Elizabeth II is the British Monarch, the thrones of England and Scotland were united in 1606. There hasn't been an "English monarch" or English throne for over 400 years.

rockey.udf
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Re: Pakistan

Post by rockey.udf »

LordJim wrote:If all these countries are aligning to confront your so called WCC, then why do the want to come and live there?
Our lands were ransacked to create the Industrial Revolution. Our language, culture and way of living were all wiped off. The English monarch sports diamonds and jewellery stole from us. We were enslaved through chicanery, fraud, forgery ad lies followed by large scale famines never experienced by us. We have been left dry while the former masters still follow a hallowed life. Won't poetic justice be served if we arrive in droves and multiply in dozens t eventually take over?

Smokey
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Re: Pakistan

Post by Smokey »

I knew it :roll:

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Pakistan

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:feeling threatened. Otherwise Canada and Luxembourg would be topping the list.
So did I; rockey, enjoy Canada (s long as you can)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Caribbean
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Re: Pakistan

Post by Caribbean »

rockey.udf wrote:The title says Queen or King of England
The title actually says:
"Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith"
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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SKB
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Re: Pakistan

Post by SKB »

Oh and she's Queen of Canada too. :lol:

rockey.udf
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Re: Pakistan

Post by rockey.udf »

SKB wrote:Oh and she's Queen of Canada too. :lol:
SKB wrote:Oh and she's Queen of Canada too. :lol:
Caribbean wrote:
rockey.udf wrote:The title says Queen or King of England
The title actually says:
"Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith"
What ever that means/entail. Interesting folks, these Brits!

abc123
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Re: Pakistan

Post by abc123 »

rockey.udf wrote:
LordJim wrote:If all these countries are aligning to confront your so called WCC, then why do the want to come and live there?
Our lands were ransacked to create the Industrial Revolution. Our language, culture and way of living were all wiped off. The English monarch sports diamonds and jewellery stole from us. We were enslaved through chicanery, fraud, forgery ad lies followed by large scale famines never experienced by us. We have been left dry while the former masters still follow a hallowed life. Won't poetic justice be served if we arrive in droves and multiply in dozens t eventually take over?

Newsflash:

India and Pakistan are independent allready for 70 years. What's holding you back now? :lol:
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

rockey.udf
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Re: Pakistan

Post by rockey.udf »

abc123 wrote:
rockey.udf wrote:
LordJim wrote:If all these countries are aligning to confront your so called WCC, then why do the want to come and live there?
Our lands were ransacked to create the Industrial Revolution. Our language, culture and way of living were all wiped off. The English monarch sports diamonds and jewellery stole from us. We were enslaved through chicanery, fraud, forgery ad lies followed by large scale famines never experienced by us. We have been left dry while the former masters still follow a hallowed life. Won't poetic justice be served if we arrive in droves and multiply in dozens t eventually take over?

Newsflash:

India and Pakistan are independent allready for 70 years. What's holding you back now? :lol:
Actually WCC had ensured that we would be "independent" in name only. We would have been free truly with our laws, language and culture had INA chief Netaji Subash been allowed back. Instead the crooked imperialists transferred powers to their patronized stooges. They divided us geographically, by ethnicity, religion, etc to keep us at loggerhead for ever. They ensured that there were enough means to keep interfering in our affairs.

Smokey
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Re: Pakistan

Post by Smokey »

Revisionist.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Pakistan

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

What will change with Trump sending a few thousand more troops into Afghanistan?

This. As it will be no more:
"Pakistan capitalized on the chaos in post-Soviet Afghanistan and hunted for a group that would serve its purposes. With the rise of Mullah Omar’s Taliban faction in the early 1990s, Pakistan military and intelligence officers assigned to implement strategic depth saw the perfect partner: a powerful jihadist political movement that was gaining popularity throughout the country and was capable of sustaining military advances. Pakistan provided military and financial support to Omar’s faction, which successfully established the Islamic Emirate of the Taliban in 1996 and controlled upwards of 90 percent of the country until the US invasion in 2001."
- and then supplied it through, what, the next 16 years
- while the Americans themselves were bankrolling Pakistan

It will be interesting to see how the u-turn will be implemented.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Smokey
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Re: Pakistan

Post by Smokey »

There were also a Pakistani intelligence service officer at HQ ISAF.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Pakistan

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Smokey wrote:There were also a Pakistani intelligence service officer at HQ ISAF.
They did fight he Taliban in Waziristan, but when I went to Quetta one definitely got the impression of a statelet totally divorced from Pakistani control. It is a double play even within the country: the honorable defence forces and the shady intelligence services... does not change the facts that the same people within and behind those are pulling the strings. And they have the purse strings,too: The army runs 40% of the businesses in the country, and not for the state's benefit, but for their own.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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xav
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Re: Pakistan

Post by xav »

STM to Modernize Second Pakistan Navy Agosta 90B Class Submarine
Turkish company STM will modernize a second Agosta 90B submarine for Pakistan. The contract signing ceremony for the second submarine under the Pakistan Navy’s Agosta 90B Class Submarine Modernisation Project was held at the premises of Pakistan’s Ministry of Defence Production, with the attendance of representatives from Pakistan’s Ministry of Defence Production and the Pakistan Navy.
...
Under the project, STM will make modifications on the pressure hull, the most critical structure in a submarine, by carrying out system-to-system and platform-to-system integrations for various systems, to be provided by local and foreign companies.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... arine.html

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Pakistan

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

China brought mig-21, Pakistan its F-16 experience, Grumman the integrating design touches (and once it withdrew, Russia a newer generation mig engine); selling like hot cakes @ $20m each.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... brid-24782

Nigeria just bought 3; and wasn't it this one that was the only new-purchase alternative considered by Argentina? Not that the IMF would let them use any of the $50bn bail-out for jet fighters
- no wonder the old Gripen will be kept in parallel production; what else is there in the 'budget' market?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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xav
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Re: Pakistan

Post by xav »

Damen launched Pakistan Navy’s second 2300 tons corvette
Image
The second corvette being built for Pakistan Navy was launched at M/s DAMEN Shipyard Galati, Romania, according to a video published on the PN Youtube account. The launching ceremony was attended by the PN Chief of Staff, Vice Admiral Ather Mukhtar.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -corvette/

Lord Jim
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Re: Pakistan

Post by Lord Jim »

How much does a Gripen go for these days, surely it can't compete with £16m per plane the article was stating for the JF-17. That plane seem to be the current take on the idea Northrop had with the F-5 series.

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Re: Pakistan

Post by Lord Jim »

I just found this on You Tube regarding the Gun Markets on the Afghan Border. A few years old but it is astonishing what is made by hand here.

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