French Armed Forces

[serge750]

PANG: What We Know About France’s Future Aircraft Carrier

In the coming days, French President Macron is expected to give the "go ahead" to the French Navy's new generation aircraft carrier (PANG) program. Here is what we know so far.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... t-carrier/

Hi , just wondered if there was any news on the French future carrier (s) ? or did I miss an announcement thanks in advance

[inch]

Well after reading that if it's all down to macron and his own choices and baring on mind he not going to be around to take responsibility in a few yrs ,why not go big say build 2 ships from the get go both the same dimensions he may aswell say 75-80k tonnes and just over 300mtrs long ,first one conventional to get it in the water ten yrs sooner than the nuclear version and have the 2 carrier fleet that's mandated I think c de g and the new class ,give everyone time to get used to 2 ship fleet again whilst developing the nuclear version which is going to take longer ,on the plus side they could maybe sell the conventional design to India or say if you wait longer the nuclear version will be along 10yrs later ,then that way France always has a carrier available in future ,that's what I'd do if I was president and nobody could argue anything different like macron

[Scimitar54]

And his successor could cancel the whole programme after the next Presidential election!

[inch]

Good point scimitar 54 but I think there's no way that the next president is going to consign the French aircraft carrier to the history books ,think would be political suicide for him

[Scimitar54]

It did not stop previous French Presidents’ doing exactly that!

[inch]

When did the last president scrap the French carrier program ie going to leave the French navy without a carrier ? I know they cut a carrier program to only 1 because of financial reasons from 2 carriers but they still had 1 new one going forwards ie c de q ,if as you say they they scrap then they got no carriers to replace c de q going forwards and I think that never going to happen

[Scimitar54]

They would continue to rely on CdeG. The financial and technical reasons that led to the scrapping of plans:-
Firstly for a second of class. And then
For a QEC based PA2. And finally
For a second carrier at all.

Macron (elected as Mr Fixit) then becomes a really unpopular President, so much so, that his re-election prospects are in some considerable doubt, comes up with a “carrier plan”! It will be for his successors to decide and the likelihood of just continuing with CdeG and pushing the decision further into the long grass may be far too tempting for the President of a country that is still beset by economic concerns and taxation/social unrest.

The French, like us NEED 2 x Carriers, but have accepted possession of only 1, for around 20 years already. There would really have to be a political Tsunami to justify the sort of expenditure required to the French population, with any hope of making it stick.

Of course, if Macron was more popular .......... !

It is a sad state to be in, one in which France is not alone ..... Namely for democratically elected governments to be unwilling or unable to provide adequate defences for their people.

[abc123]

Trouble is: Two carriers need more escort ships and submarines and aircrafts than just one. Paying for just CV is the easiest part.

[Lord Jim]

The French will have enough escorts to cover whichever new carrier is at sea, as well as support vessels now the four new auxiliaries are on order. IF the money is there, I am pretty sure they will build two, as not having a carrier available when CdG is in maintenance or refit has proved awkward.

[inch]

2 nuclear or 2 conventional or one of each lord Jim , where do you put your money ?I'd say Def 1 nuclear but 50/50 on the other if they do indeed build 2

[Lord Jim]

I would say money will decide. If the money is there for two conventional carriers but the additional cost to move to nuclear is large then I believe they will go for the former. However France does seem to like National Prestige Programmes which is why they built the CdG, (and her unbuild sister ship) rather than two conventionally powered carriers to replace Foch and her sister.

That would be the danger for the French Navy, if their Government decided to pursue a programme for two nuclear powered carriers to raise the nations image and then ends up only being able to afford one, history repeating itself if you will.

[Repulse]

Perhaps the Germans will stump up to buy/fund a second as part of future EU task groups; would need to be conventional though.

[xav]

PANG: What We Know About France’s Future Aircraft Carrier

In the coming days, French President Macron is expected to give the "go ahead" to the French Navy's new generation aircraft carrier (PANG) program. Here is what we know so far.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... t-carrier/

Hi , just wondered if there was any news on the French future carrier (s) ? or did I miss an announcement thanks in advance

Haha... rumor has it it has been pushed back to September (when a recovery plan for the Fr defense industry is supposed to be announced) or the Euronaval naval defense show...

Problem is around July 14, a change of Government was announced: A new prime minister (and several new ministers) was appointed so the timing was not good anymore...

[serge750]

Thanks for the reply xav

I'm not surprised something like this would get pushed back until the best possible moment. spending money on defense at the moment would probably not go down to well with the majority of voters - unfortunately

[The Armchair Soldier]

http://alert5.com/2020/08/30/greece-get ... om-france/

Claims that Greece is getting 18 Rafale, 8 of which being free from the French Air Force’s own fleet.

[Lord Jim]

Interesting, I wonder if it has anything to do with how Turkey has been acting recently and wanting Greece, a firm NATO member to be reinforced?

[serge750]

http://alert5.com/2020/08/30/greece-get ... om-france/

Claims that Greece is getting 18 Rafale, 8 of which being free from the French Air Force’s own fleet.

Does that mean Greece will be getting our T23 for nowt as our contribution

[ArmChairCivvy]

Does that mean Greece will be getting our T23 for nowt

200 tanks for free from the US, jets from France... yes, that would fit in. Except that both the Greek and Turkish ships have been designed to sink other ships; not exactly a T23 forte

[xav]

Charles de Gaulle carrier back at sea after “COVID-19 adjustments”

The French Navy (Marine Nationale)'s Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier received a number of health safety improvements this summer in order to make it more resilient to the COVID-19 epidemic, French minister of the armed forces said on Sunday. Hundreds of crewmembers tested positive back in April.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... justments/

[xav]

Fate of Fire-Damaged SSN Perle to be Decided in October

Lighting is said to be the cause of the fire that broke out aboard French Navy Rubis-Class nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) ‘Perle’ in June, according to the new French Navy's Chief of Staff, Admiral Pierre Vandier. A decision on the fate of the SSN will be made in October, pending the results of the ongoing investigation.
...
Speaking of Saphir, according to our information, one of the options being considered would be to use the forward section of the decommissioned submarine and plug it to the aft section of Perle. Saphir‘s hull is currently in Cherbourg while Perle is still in Toulon.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... n-october/

[Timmymagic]

one of the options being considered would be to use the forward section of the decommissioned submarine and plug it to the aft section of Perle. Saphir‘s hull is currently in Cherbourg while Perle is still in Toulon.

Along with scrapping her outright that sounds like the most sensible move, there's plenty of precedences for it as well. There's just no slack in western forces today to cope with the loss of 1 such important platform.

[Timmymagic]

Claims that Greece is getting 18 Rafale, 8 of which being free from the French Air Force’s own fleet.

There was a time when the French AF had options on a further 9 Rafale. I wonder if (if its true) this will be an exercise in getting rid of their 8 oldest examples, whilst exercising the old option for 9 new aircraft in order to keep the production line ticking over for FCAS?

[abc123]

Claims that Greece is getting 18 Rafale, 8 of which being free from the French Air Force’s own fleet.

There was a time when the French AF had options on a further 9 Rafale. I wonder if (if its true) this will be an exercise in getting rid of their 8 oldest examples, whilst exercising the old option for 9 new aircraft in order to keep the production line ticking over for FCAS?

Probably.

[ArmChairCivvy]

I've read something about the oldest not being suitable for the new Rafale baseline (R4 or F4, memory does not serve which of those designations they use)

[xav]

I think it is "F3R" ? Because "F4" is still a concept way down the road (post 2040) IIRC