French Armed Forces

[ArmChairCivvy]

Thx, got 2 out of them 3

[xav]

Pictures: French Navy’s First Air Defense FREMM ‘Alsace’ Starts Sea Trials

The FREMM frigate "Alsace" started her initial sea trials on October 5th, setting sails for the first time under her own power from the Naval Group shipyard in Lorient. "Alsace" is the first of two air-defense frigates known as FREMM DA (Frégate Européenne Multimissions de Défense Aérienne) for the French Navy (Marine Nationale).

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ea-trials/


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[ArmChairCivvy]

Again proves the point that you can make an AAW ship from an ASW specialist (providing it is big and stable enough as a platform)
... but this 'magic' won't work the other way round

Now StRN is worried about the T-26 run extending so far into the future that T-45 replacement prgrm could be endangered; hold the thought of the above para

[xav]

Not to brag or anything, but yeah, that was pretty cool and intense... I won't forget this anytime soon and I would do it again in a heart beat

[xav]

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Euronaval: General Atomics On EMALS Milestones And France’s Future Aircraft Carrier PANG

During Euronaval Online 2020, Naval News interviewed Scott Forney, President of General Atomics Electromagnetic Systems. We discussed milestones with the EMALS program, reliability and France's future aircraft carrier program known as PANG.

https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/eu ... rier-pang/

[ArmChairCivvy]

There's a fixed ISD for the Franco-German fighter project then:
" French Armed Forces Minister Florence Parly confirmed that the PANG program will be launched in order to deliver a successor to the existing Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier in 2038."
- we can also count backwards from there, as for the number of years that the F-35 claimed ISD (with the RAF/ FAA) from land - as opposed to carrier air

[Defiance]

I wouldn't call it fixed, there's no reason they couldn't spend the first 5 years of service carrying Rafale around. Official ISD for SCAF is still 2040, I don't think the carrier changes it that dramatically.

The main dependencies between the 2 projects will be things like dimensions, weights, datalinks etc but that'll be sorted long before they reach service.

[Timmymagic]

I wouldn't call it fixed, there's no reason they couldn't spend the first 5 years of service carrying Rafale around. Official ISD for SCAF is still 2040, I don't think the carrier changes it that dramatically.

Spot on. CdG operated with Super Etendard Modernise as part of its air group until 2016, 15 years after she entered service. In terms of numbers the French Navy has enough Rafale M for 1 air group, but as CdG is only operational for a part of a time they have plenty of time ashore for training, maintenance etc. Essentially they time their 'up time' with the carriers availability.

[serge750]

Did they postpone the announcement about the next carrier(s) or did I miss it ? so looking forward to seeing what they come up with carrier wise, but obviously with this pandemic so many things are getting put on the back burner

[inch]

Yes I think it will definitely be a 2 carrier program, 2 x 300mtrs x 76mtrs vessels or there abouts when it finally gets the go ahead

[J. Tattersall]

An interesting question is what are the French armed forces and its defence policy designed for?

.....most of the Central and East European countries are simply not convinced that France would be committed to the defence of their independence any more than in the late 1930s; instead, they are afraid that France might be tempted to negotiate against their interests with Russia.

From a commentary by RUSI

Mission Unaccomplished: France’s Monsieur Macron Visits the Baltics

https://rusi.org/commentary/mission-una ... ts-baltics

[donald_of_tokyo]

Very good summary of La Fayette class modernization.

One small note. Interesting that the BlueWatcher sonar (hull-mounted FLASH) tested on Surcouf was not adopted in the 3 modernized frigates, which will have much larger KingKlip Mk2. Very understandable, but still interested on the performance of the BlueWatcher.

https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/eu ... -frigates/

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[SKB]

The city of Portsmouth will look forward to welcoming a warship proudly wearing the number 657.

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France Approves Procurement Of 3 E-2D Advanced Hawkeye AEW&C Aircraft

The French Ministry of Armed Forces announced today that the acquisition of three E-2D Advanced Hawkeye Airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft was approved on November 4, 2020.

Like the E-2C Hawkeye currently in service with the French Navy and implemented by the Flottille 4F squadron, the three E-2D Advanced Hawkeye aircraft will be stationed at the Lann-Bihoué (Brittany) naval air base and deployed on the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier, and eventually on its successor.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -aircraft/

[BlueD954]

French SNN Émeraude at Guam as part of a long-term deployment.

[Timmymagic]

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France’s New Aircraft Carrier Will Be Nuclear Powered

French President Emmanuel Macron today officially green lighted the construction of a new nuclear-powered aircraft carrier as part of the PANG program. The future flag ship of the Marine Nationale is intended to replace the existing "Charles de Gaulle" around 2038.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... r-powered/

[Lord Jim]

Looks like a Photoshop of a Ford class. Somehow I cannot see the next French Carrier being that size and certainly not two being procured as was the plan.

[Max Jones]

I think it's pretty much guaranteed at this point there won't be two procured - certainly not without a massive boost in defence spending for France which would require the entire nation unanimously changing its foreign policies. With only two specialised AAW escorts (Horizon) and two lighter semi-specialised ones from the FREMM-AAW models, there isn't really the support to accommodate a full sized carrier strike group all year round.

Instead with this arrangement, they get a lot of power but not much versatility.

[serge750]

Im thinking that the French would of learned the lessons of having only 1 carrier, (also consider the one up man ship with the RN, they will be the biggest naval power in the EU along with that prestige ) so as said they will need a boost in spending in the long term, the first one due in 2038, so allowing for delays maybe in the early 2030's they may give a cash injection to allow for the second carrier.

How long could CdeG keep going, maybe they could run her along side the new carrier for a few years as a reserve ...

[SKB]

Will the French be borrowing another nuclear reactor from a submarine for this proposed design? And will the flight deck be too short for its aircraft?!

[Jensy]

I think it's pretty much guaranteed at this point there won't be two procured - certainly not without a massive boost in defence spending for France which would require the entire nation unanimously changing its foreign policies. With only two specialised AAW escorts (Horizon) and two lighter semi-specialised ones from the FREMM-AAW models, there isn't really the support to accommodate a full sized carrier strike group all year round.

Instead with this arrangement, they get a lot of power but not much versatility.

The best hope of seeing a second French carrier built would likely have been if Germany was willing to get involved in the carrier business, which was rumoured some time ago.

Whatever chances of that happening will probably go out of the window with a nuclear power plant. The Germans have never operated a nuclear-powered warship, lack the facilities to do so and the cost of gaining these capabilities would be almost impossible with the make-up of their parliament since the end of the Cold War. Honestly more chance (still close to zero) of the UK deciding to get involved as a follow on to the QEC....

Consider the issues that the US has faced in building the GF Class (effectively an updated version of a late 1960s design that's been in near constant build since 1968), which is costing US taxpayers $13bn before R&D.

Any belief that this project is going to come in at €5bn seems like fantasy. I'd imagine at least €10-12bn, in 2020 prices for one ship. Were it not for the the five Mistral Class coming in at reasonable prices, I'd guess even higher.

[BlueD954]

I think it's pretty much guaranteed at this point there won't be two procured - certainly not without a massive boost in defence spending for France which would require the entire nation unanimously changing its foreign policies. With only two specialised AAW escorts (Horizon) and two lighter semi-specialised ones from the FREMM-AAW models, there isn't really the support to accommodate a full sized carrier strike group all year round.

Instead with this arrangement, they get a lot of power but not much versatility.

The best hope of seeing a second French carrier built would likely have been if Germany was willing to get involved in the carrier business, which was rumoured some time ago.

Whatever chances of that happening will probably go out of the window with a nuclear power plant. The Germans have never operated a nuclear-powered warship, lack the facilities to do so and the cost of gaining these capabilities would be almost impossible with the make-up of their parliament since the end of the Cold War. Honestly more chance (still close to zero) of the UK deciding to get involved as a follow on to the QEC....

Consider the issues that the US has faced in building the GF Class (effectively an updated version of a late 1960s design that's been in near constant build since 1968), which is costing US taxpayers $13bn before R&D.

Any belief that this project is going to come in at €5bn seems like fantasy. I'd imagine at least €10-12bn, in 2020 prices for one ship. Were it not for the the five Mistral Class coming in at reasonable prices, I'd guess even higher.

Germany will provide the planes --the NGF, or just hardware. It's not a blue-water nation.